Bullying at work... does it ever work out?

[BrightSideOfTheMoon]

I'm not going into details because it's not my story to tell, but I'm supporting a friend and everything I'm reading around this seems to be doom-laden.

Does is always end in resiging/ going off sick/ being miserable forever?

They get a dopamine hit from it.

I've never seen bullying end with a good result. My last, very large organisation used to sweep it under the carpet. I was manager for a bit & became aware of a long running bullying dispute in my department. HR just rolled their eyes at me when I tried to get them involved.

In my current job, which is a boutique firm with joint owners, and one owner bullied a staff member. Bullying process started & staff member was told in they couldn't do anything & one would eventually have to leave & it wouldn't be the partner.

I’ve resigned from my job following bullying from my manager. I filed a grievance which has been mostly upheld - im not the first and won’t be the last, but it seems to take a lot for management to actually take action.
im glad i filed the grievance though, it will make it easier for the next person to be believed.

I have a manager who is known for bullying. Our department must have had the highest staff turnover in our company! Unfortunately, the longer-term members had an attitude of, "Just get your head down and get on with it"... and it carried on until I got called into a private meeting with someone more senior. That person believed in me, supported me through the grievance process, got HR involved, etc. Unfortunately, the manager got off scot-free that time, because nobody else would back me up. However, it's much better as he has to be on his best behaviour. Occasionally, it starts to slip, and a quick word with his new manager sorts it out very quickly. The huge personality change has encouraged others to start speaking up; I got told, "If I knew what a difference it would make, I'd have said something sooner!". We are sometimes called into meetings with other senior people to report other issues. I assume that there is a case being built in the background for his unceremonious departure.

In his experience, I think that the power went to his head. In his head, he is always right, and anybody else's opinion is wrong. Left unchecked for too long, in a fairly isolated department, he could fly off the handle and, although there was obviously an issue somewhere (i.e. staff leaving, mental health issues), nobody outside of our department knew exactly what was going on.

The one thing that encouraged me to keep pushing for him to stop was the thought that I didn't want anyone else to go through the same experiences. I recently read in a book that your silence gives permission for the bully to carry on, and on reflection, I think that is true. Thus, I will not stay silent and put up with bullying in the workplace! However, we still pray for the manager's demise, as he doesn't seem to plan on retiring any time soon.

That’s very inspiring @TheeNotoriousPIG . It’s difficult to speak up but if nobody does then nothing changes.

I do understand why so many people don’t feel able to, though. Especially as the bully so often gets away with it.,

I can’t go into details as would be v outing but I had a situation at work where I was being bullied by someone in a position of authority. He was careful not to be aggressive etc in front of others but it was things like not helping me if I went for advice, excluding me from conversations and not speaking to me etc. I handled it by avoiding him but I did at one point speak to someone of an equivalent grade and ask for advice. I made it clear that I wasn’t “reporting him” or anything like that I just raised it in a way to seek some advice. Nothing really came of that for a v v long time and then karma hit. It was glorious! Turned out there’d been an unrelated bit of v poor judgement for which he was absolutely carpeted and he was also spoke to about the way he treats women in the office generally. A year ago this would have seemed equally impossible of resolution as many of the stories here but I guess what it taught me is that there is often poor judgement and behaviour in other respects and that may well come home to roost.

Mine was rearing his head again. I reported him to his manager... who was alarmed to say in the least... to the point that HR are apparently getting involved again. The two managers have since had a discussion, and mine runs away and treats me like I have the Plague, so life is very peaceful for me at the moment!

Good to hear of people challenging and making a difference. It can take real courage to do that.

Sadly, what I'm hearing, here and offline, is that it is actually very hard to bring a successful case for unfair dismissal or get any other remedy. The bar is set very high. Which makes it easier for bad managers to dismiss concerns from HR or anywhere else.

It is hard to know whether its worth bringing a complaint - depends on the culture of the organisation. What is on paper may not be what is put into practice. I imagine in many cases the deciding factor will be whether the bullies are getting results and if they are, the unhappinness of colleagues is just collateral damage.

What worked well in a situation that arose at a previous organisation I worked in was an informal bit of mediation. My boss and I got in a twist and just needed to take a step back and understand each others perspective. We ended up being good friends and are still friends. I put that down to a superb HR manager, who was really into making the place an excellent place to work and tackling issues openly and fairly.

I hope things work out for you. It's really shit.

I meant to add - Join a Union.

They can't help you if you join after the issue you are struggling with is pre-existing. But if you do get into a situation and have Union representation it can make a huge difference.

I second this. So much better to have the practical (& emotional) support of a union rep who knows what they’re doing, than not.

It’s important to understand that the grievance process run by HR is there to protect the corporation at all costs and not to adjudicate between employees.

What this can look like in reality is that the complainer will lose the grievance because this could impact the corporation. The victim leaves but in time the bully is managed out of their role especially if there have been issues before because HR know they are a threat to the business.

This is what happened to me. I did a grievance, an appeal and then a tribunal. I lost which cost me a lot of money and my mental health. However the culprit was removed from post when an acceptable amount of time had past from the tribunal. My mental health a battering over that year and my confidence collapsed and impacted decision to change career which had financial consequences.

I had already resigned and only mentioned the bullying in my letter and HR persuaded me to do a grievance. I know now that she had previous and HR wanted more evidence from my situation but they knew I would never win because their job is to protect the corporation. I felt misled and used all over again.

I would never go down this track ever again. I would up and leave asap at the first hint when you still have energy and self esteem - well before being eroded emotionally over time.

That's really awful, @Nattmatt .

@BrightSideOfTheMoon @stevegrabshall Funnily enough, my manager used to be part of the most relevant (and local) union to our industry! It is something that I am considering, but I don't know enough about unions and things yet, and I also worry that he will know the union side of things inside out. Also, he is feared and disliked by everyone that seems to know him, so people just bow down to him because it's the easy way out. Would it make the extremely high-up managers and HR (external to our area) take things more seriously?

I think that the fact that his manager (who I have great respect for) believes me has been a big confidence boost. Also, the respect that I got from some members of my team as a result of reporting the manager (and the sudden change in his behaviour... to the point that people were asking us if there was something wrong with him) has improved my self-esteem.

In the meantime, some of us are merely planning things to do/say to annoy the manager (childish, I know, but if he explodes at us again, he's out! We're hoping to get it on camera/recorded as proof, because he denied everything that I'd written down).