Help me understand this - poor performance

[dancingqueen345]

Just hoping someone can help me wrap my head around this really as I just can’t fathom what’s going through this persons head.

I’m currently managing a PIP process for someone in another team, very junior team member who has a data entry job. The work is straightforward but requires attention to detail. In my opinion it’s the sort of job that yes, doesn’t pay amazingly, but it’senough to keep you engaged during the working day but one you can walk away from at 5pm without another thought.

The person in the role has been doing it for 2 years, and due to various manager changes/business changes has largely gone under the radar, but as other parts of the business have improved it’s become glaringly obvious that this person can’t do their job. I’m talking about the most basic of mistakes, repeatedly. Never getting things done on time. Says there aren’t enough hours in the day (despite actually only being asked to do about half of their job description).

I sit there in our one to ones just absolutely flabbergasted that this person doesn’t seem to understand how awful they are at their job.

I think because I feel so much imposter syndrome most of the time despite being actually very good at my job I just don’t get how this person isn’t just putting in their notice and moving on (not that I think anyone would hire them). What compels someone to want to stay somewhere everyone clearly thinks they’re crap?!

You could also ask what poor management doesn’t guide the employee and inform them that their work is sub par?

@NotaCoolMumcouldn't agree more, and absolutely there’s failings on that side too, but that’s not really my question

Because it pays their bills presumably? If they’re crap they’re likely to struggle to get another, and starving isn’t really a viable option

It sounds like the sort of job someone could not care about at all. Do they see any sort of importance in it, like they are part of a much larger and important picture?

I do so know several people who think they're due a living, believe they employer should be grateful they turn up at all.

@AndImBrit okay that’s fair and exposes my privilege because I hadn’t actually thought in those terms (and hence why I’m asking the question)

@IReallyLoveItHere yes it absolutely has a big part in the bigger picture and I’m pretty sure he understands that.

His attitude isn’t even really “you should be grateful I turn up”, it’s more vacant, like he starts every meeting with “I think it’s been a good week” and I’m sat there looking at the list of mistakes from his manager (that have been flagged to him) and thinking how can you think it’s been a good week?!

No one is just going to resign because they’re under performing. (caveat any one with the attitude to work you have described)

If they resign, they have to find another job.

Manager are employed to see and nurture talent and remove dead weight.

He is not going to voluntarily go, so if you’re responsible for the PIP you either have to get him performing or manage him out.

I'm managing someone similar at the minute, although we aren't quite at a pip stage yet (mainly because I'm trying to unpick years of bad management first). It's so infuriating.

He had a very clear end of year review and poor score, where I (thought I had) laid out exactly where the issues were and what needed to improve. A couple of weeks later we were discussing development plans and he confidently stated that he didn't really know what he had to improve on and saw no need to develop.

I can't work out whether it's inability or not being arsed tbh. And it really makes you doubt the conversations you've had!

@flipent this is really the point of my question (and would love to have a proper discussion), it’s obviously a blind spot for me, but I can’t imagine wanting to stay in a job I just cannot do.

the job sounds repetitive and tedious. Perhaps your company needs to split the role and give them half a day of tedious shit, and half a day of something a bit more stimulating and skill building?

But yes, you need to urgently need to review your management/supervisory processes too (do you train them when you promote them?) as well.

As for why they don't quit? pays the rent. If they quit they get barred for claiming unemployment, if they're fired they don't?

I’ve been on the flip side of this and it was awful. What I know now that I didn’t then is I actually have ADHD. I could not get to grips with the role. I had meetings and management kept saying ‘You need to get better, how will you improve’ with no practical advice. I needed the job. I was applying for other things but I was so miserable and I think it eked out of me at interviews! In the end, I broke down at another meeting and said I couldn’t do it any more. They were able to facilitate a transfer to another department, where I was much happier.
I know people always 🙄 when people suggest neurodivergence, but someone who struggles to focus on tasks, makes repeated mistakes and loses time does indicate there may be some ND issues. If they aren’t picking up after all this time and feedback, are you in a position to suggest a different role that might suit them better?

@MaJoady I feel your pain, although in my case I’m clear it’s inability. I actually feel awful for him because as I said I think he would really struggle to get a job elsewhere, but he’s making so many other people’s jobs so much harder and it’s just not fair

@Brefugee yes the job is repetitive (what job isn’t) but I wouldn’t say it’s tedious, it’s just the sort of job that you follow a very simple process map for. There’s expansion of the role to be had if the person wanted it but no desire from my man in question.

I didn’t know that about the quit/firing difference though so thank you.

What does he say when you ask why he thinks it has been a good week considering what the Manager has flagged?

@ItsMutinyontheBunty what were the main difference between the role you struggled in and the one you felt happier in?

There is ND here, he has been assessed by OH though as being able to manage with the allowances that have been made (working from home 3/5 days, doesn’t have to take calls at his desk, reduced work load)

He’ll say something like, “yes apart from that”, or that he’s make less mistakes than the week before (also inaccurate)

Pay peanuts get monkeys. The wage sounds low and the job repetitive.

He needs to go and the next one in his place, provide a decent salary with opportunities to develop and grow. This is clearly an entry type job, so to think someone will stay in it long is a bit optimistic really.

If you're aware there's ND then asking the question on MN as to why he doesn't recognise that he's underperforming/leave voluntarily isn't going to provide answers. The more useful action would be to have a meeting with him to point out effects of these mistakes to other areas (with clear examples) and, most crucially, to work out what practical measures need to be put in place to provide support and stop them happening. A general 'we need to stop these errors' isn't useful. You've mentioned the HR input/adjustments but these are generic - you need to dig deeper. For example, he might benefit from some short term mentoring to check & provide supportive feedback on his work to identify where issues occur and then review.

i'm not 100% sure about the unemployment money, i'm in Germany and here that is definitely the case.

When this is over, if this person stays or goes, it might be worth reassessing this job, if you want it to remain a boring repetitive data entry, or swap it out with a few other jobs, so that more people are covering it and there is less opportunity for silly mistakes due to boredom/repetition. But also, do you want the person doing this to do it just to earn money, or should they be using it more as a start in the company so they can learn and progress.

With data entry (I have done this as a bit of a rest from "thinking work") and it can be soul sucking. But also you need to have more than one conversation about attitude.

The OH assessment sounds like it needs looking at again, he's clearly not managing and do OH know that he's still making loads of mistakes?
I work with a gentleman with ASD, happens to be very good at his job 99% of the time but cannot cope at all with customer interaction as part of his ASD means he's very very literal, so for one conversation I can expect to receive a 3 page email recounting the whole conversation in minute detail. His job is data entry too.
It does sound like this has been mismanaged for a while and nobody is managing to communicate effectively what changes he needs to make. Why is his manager making a list rather than nipping the mistakes in the bud? I do senior level administration and it drives me nuts when senior managers make a list and tell me about an error a week later

Do you honestly think that every job can have that (or need that)? Genuine question.

Yes this is an entry level job. The sort of job that some people will absolutely want to upskill from and move on from, but also the sort of job that for someone who wanted a stable income and and an easy life could easily be a job for life for. I’m not ‘expecting’ him to want to stay in it for long, I’m actually wondering the opposite as to why he wants to stay in it any longer!

We’ve offered a follow up OH appointment and he has declined. In fairness to his manager every mistake is highlighted at the time, and with an offer to go back over the process, I just get it as a list ahead of my 121 with him.

We’re not a big enough company for it to be more than one persons job, but it’s definitely the sort of company that promotes from within and gives opportunities where people are willing (and able). You can’t force ambition onto people though.

Some people are just not that intelligent and maybe he is just not clever enough ?
I know you say it’s easy but obviously not for him. How long has he been there ?
If under 2 years can’t you just let him go?

Agree, OP, you just need to know if he's just doing it to pay rent or if he has ambition.

If it''s the former, he needs to pull his finger out, and maybe surviving the PIP could be contingent on a further OH assessment?
If the latter you need to decide if there is enough material to work with, tell him to pull his finger out and so on.

It sounds like a pain in the butt though