Help me understand this - poor performance

[dancingqueen345]

Just hoping someone can help me wrap my head around this really as I just can’t fathom what’s going through this persons head.

I’m currently managing a PIP process for someone in another team, very junior team member who has a data entry job. The work is straightforward but requires attention to detail. In my opinion it’s the sort of job that yes, doesn’t pay amazingly, but it’senough to keep you engaged during the working day but one you can walk away from at 5pm without another thought.

The person in the role has been doing it for 2 years, and due to various manager changes/business changes has largely gone under the radar, but as other parts of the business have improved it’s become glaringly obvious that this person can’t do their job. I’m talking about the most basic of mistakes, repeatedly. Never getting things done on time. Says there aren’t enough hours in the day (despite actually only being asked to do about half of their job description).

I sit there in our one to ones just absolutely flabbergasted that this person doesn’t seem to understand how awful they are at their job.

I think because I feel so much imposter syndrome most of the time despite being actually very good at my job I just don’t get how this person isn’t just putting in their notice and moving on (not that I think anyone would hire them). What compels someone to want to stay somewhere everyone clearly thinks they’re crap?!

I’ve been on the other side!

I started my job about three years ago. We were short staffed, and I had no one else to ask questions apart from the manager.

I kept making mistakes with data entry, but we didn’t have anything in place I.e systems and data wasn’t in the right place so I was in the process of having to create complex systems to then do the data entry. I did make mistakes.

Every time I was getting an email, it had like twenty things of what’s wrong with it. Then saying that it was overdue and it was meant to have been done months back….there was only me working on this project because we had no other staff.

It was demoralising always getting emails back, getting critical emails, without even showing me how it should’ve been done in the first place. Just constantly criticising because it’s not done in their way. In the end, I found a way of doing my job, because I am ND. Process might be different but the accuracy is now higher than before anyone else did it.

They knew that I was ND, but they never tailored feedback to help me understand. I had to use my own initiative.

Anyway, after all of that I think I was going to be put on a PIP. But fortunately HR did have to enforce reasonable adjustments and got me more help or a claim was threatening to come their way .I am doing better now, but it was challenging. I nearly quit many of the time but I’ve stuck it out.

I think you have to try and enforce reasonable adjustments on your end, and exhaust all options you can do - that’s the only way to do it!

I think the change of managers is a big factor in him not ‘getting it’: you say he has been flying under the radar because of this

Due to the ND he will think if the former bosses didn’t point out issues there were none. I see this pattern in a relative with (High functioning) ASD. I can understand why you are frustrated/think his assessment is ridiculous: he won’t

Is there another role in the company you can move him to?

Different angle.

If he’s done in that way for the last couple of years with no issues, then that’s the reference case for an ok week.

So if last week was on par with that reference then it’s also ok.

From his angle, someone is now getting excited about something that’s always been ok.

People think differently. One of my colleagues is puzzled why I credit other people for having given assistance (I'm 6 months in - I have needed lots of assistance as I'm still learning the processes.) He also thinks he should get a payrise. As far as I can see, he only does the bare minimum - he's not adding anything extra.

I suppose I am as puzzled as he is, just for different reasons - I want to do things that make it easier for all of us, and working together and helping each other out when needed is part of being a team. But he doesn't seem to see that mutual benefit aspect and will only do things wh8ch he sees will help him, now.

It’s a training and communication issue. If the work environment was chaotic for his first couple of years then it’s safe to assume the training wasn’t up to scratch. From his point of view, he’s been doing his job with for 2 years with no issues so he might think these errors can’t be causing that much of a problem.

It’s on management to explain the impact of his mistakes and work with him to improve. Ask him how he feels he learns best - written or verbal instructions, shadowing a colleague, taking his own notes - and arrange extensive retraining based on that.

I've encountered two people in my working life who were totally incapable of seeing their actions.

As an example, two people had a confrontation in the office. I was away that day, but when I returned I had five eye witness versions that were consistent. I spoke to the two people involved. One had a version of events consistent with witnesses. The other - it was like they were at a totally different event. I was listening to them tell their side and couldn't believe the disconnect between their version and what actually happened.

I think what you might have is someone doesn't think the mistakes they are making are material and having negative impacts on others. You can tell him until you are blue in the face, but I don't think it will sink in. He'll be seeing it as people have it in for him and are finding minor things to justify giving him a hard time.

I’m a nurse. I’d been qualified for years and tried a different area. The area where I struggled you had to react very quickly to avoid an emergency (critical care) and I’d freeze for a second or two then react. I was told my reactions weren’t quick enough. The more pressure they put me under, the worse it got! Moved to a different area with less pressure/urgency and more support if there was a problem. Ironically my manager in the first place observed when I worked my notice, I was much better, because the pressure was off!
If he is ND, you’re going to have to be very careful how you handle things or he’ll have grounds for discrimination. Can he go through access to work for assessment to look at equipment that might help? Is there any strategies for reviewing work to help him pick up mistakes?
Just thinking I’ve worked with someone who was making mistakes. I was told to send it back saying there are errors but not to point them out or ‘How would they learn?’. I said that wasn’t fair and it was agreed to highlight the mistakes, see if she could work out the issue and there was support to discuss if she didn’t know what the mistake was. It helped a lot.

She’s not you, you are thinking about it from your point of view but she’s not you.

im not being flippant, I’ve been in similar positions , I’m actually quite jealous sometimes , their head must be a better place to be than mine.

trying to work out why people behave like they do or why they aren’t like you - that way madness lies.

It’s the old locus of control thing isn’t it.

This level of micromanagement with weekly meetings sounds demotivating. One to ones are normally monthly. If the manager is having to flag weekly feedback to you for this person to meet weekly surely this is overkill. If the person is struggling why hasn’t this been flagged now not 2 years into the job. Putting a person under the microscope can cause errors as they are so scared they will make errors and lose their job.

A guy used to work in my team before I started. I'm still coming across things he's done years later which were done with absolutely no evidence we require and it's blown my brain how much he just either didn't care or how incompetent he was. My colleagues say he just done what he liked but was a really clever guy.

Think just updating important accounts from a phone call, without getting the evidence we require and fact checking before updating. It's years down the line and the errors are clear on the accounts because when Im dealing with them they are completely incorrect and it's cost us alot of money.

I think some people just do the bare minimum because they can and have no interest in doing more or doing things properly if they can get away with it. Then there will be people who struggle with the job and have poor attention to detail, no matter how well they are managed/trained.

How old is this person? Is this their first job? My 'DH manages a team which typically comprises young graduates in their first job, and regularly finds that they initially have quite unrealistic expectations about the world of work, including the need to do the routine jobs just as well as the more exciting ones, and the necessity to do a full week's consistent work every week.

Depends where you are. I've had jobs with weekly, fortnightly and monthly 1-2-1s. Current job, they mostly happen just for performance reviews, but I can ask for a 1-2-1 any time, though mostly I just ask questions that don't need a long discussion, so I don't bother with 1-2-1s.

Of course, if you're the only one getting weekly 1-2-1s (when you're not brand new) and everyone else is on monthlies, that would be demotivating.

that is the nature of a PIP. If you don't have regular meetings how is a PIP supposed to work?

What is important is that both sides give their feedback, and then an honest, objective assessment is done, and the employee must recalibrate their understanding of their job/performance if their own assessment deviates from the objective assessment.

the employee can’t win though the OP states they can’t understand why they can’t see that they are bad at their job. I was putting myself in the employees position if at every PIP meeting OP is consistently giving bad feedback the message is not and no objective assessment is being carried out. The employee is probably struggling to understand why this is being done when they have been doing the job for 2 years without issue. OP wants this person to hand in notice as that way it’s nicer for OP and the business rather than offering positives to get the employee to the required level of performance.

the employee can win if they demonstrate the ability to listen and learn and do the job properly, hence the PIP rather than outright sacking him.

There is a mismatch between his understanding of how competently he is working compared to reality. And ND or not, a good PIP is the way to go here. Either he can learn to do it properly, or he can't. Maybe he requires more supervision, and it is up to the company to see if they can work that into the processes they have.

and iirc they haven't been doing the job without issue for 2 years, and that has recently come to light. Maybe it's a management thing, which is why PIP. I think that is a positive mood, but the employee may need to relearn. And close scrutiny is good for that.

A PIP means things have deteriorated to the point where monthly 121s aren't enough. How is a person supposed to avoid being fired for underperformance if they go a whole month between talking about how they are doing... you have to tell someone where they are going wrong and why and offer support or how else are they going to improve?

when i was managing a PIP we had a meeting at the start of the day where they told me what they would be doing, we went through the tasks together quickly to outline where they should be at the end of the day, and we went through the previous day's work to see that we had ended where we were supposed to.

The first 2 weeks were an absolute nightmare and i was on the verge of recommending that they be let go. I explained one more time that the situation was serious and if they wanted to go we could fire them (there was no legal issue with that). And over a month they got back on track, readjusted their attitude and carried on working there for a couple of years.

but bloody hell, it was hard work getting it into their head that anyone could do their job better than them and unlike school you can't just coast.

What would you consider an acceptable error rate? Do you actually have a sense of that, or just that his is 'too much'? I think given the way you've described this person they may well need a very concrete sense of what 'good enough' would look like to understand that it differs from yours. At the moment I would guess they think that sure, of course their work isn't perfect but no one is 100% and it's been good enough for two years, so it feels a bit bewildering that you're now weekly going over and over a pretty steady situation. What's the PIP target that was set? Was it reduce errors by a particular proportion, or was it just something vague like 'produce accurate, timely work'?

Agree if you are carrying out the PIP correctly you should have set achievable measurable goals to improve and each meeting should be documented. Expecting a person to resign and look for a new job to move on just because you think they are rubbish at their job is bizarre.

Just to update on this (for anyone that cares), 3 weeks into the 4 week review period he handed his notice in.

Found it very insightful reading everyone’s opinions and experiences though and has definitely highlighted where my own experience is lacking in managing others that I will look to address.

Are you feeling relieved @dancingqueen345 ?

@Ohnobackagain I am, but also feeling so bad for him. I really hope he has something else lined up that better suits his needs.

I understand that @dancingqueen345 I’d be the same