Flexible working request will potentially be declined

[GinAndCheese23]

I contacted my manger and HR to arrange a discussion about flexible work arrangements when I come back to work after maternity leave. It took forever for anyone to come to me with a date for a meeting. Instead I got a email on Friday afternoon, basically saying the flexible work options that I put forward would not be supported due to the structure of the team and requirements of the role as 2 people (including myself) perform this role and they need daily cover to maintain services levels. But happy to arrange a call to discuss further.

The flexible work options I put forward was either to condense my hours into 4 days or 0.9 FTE over 4 hours. They mentioned alternative arrangements, which I asked for them to suggest and the response was just to fill in my flexible work request form and explain how it’ll impact the team and how I’ll make it work for them. But to be honest what ever I’ll put down will be declined as even with me proposing what is a tiny adjustment is still not got enough.

Now here’s the joke, they didn’t provide maternity cover for my role, so have been working at reduced capacity since I went on leave 6 months ago. Plus the organisation has won awards for having an inclusive work place and prides itself on the benefits they have for working parents - clearly this is BS!

I really don’t want to go back full time and I don’t want to send my DS to nursery full time, our plan was to send him 3 days a week. One day I would have him and the other day grandparents will have him but they do live an hour away, so can’t really ask them to have him more often during the week.

One half of me thinks that are being awkward and are trying to find away to make it difficult for me so I will leave the organisation. But then the other half of me is thinking that they don’t know that I know the other person in my team is leaving and they want me to come back full time to pick up the workload as they have a trend when someone leaves they don’t replace the role.

It’s just a rubbish situation and quite frankly I don’t want to go back. But I have to otherwise I have to pay 6 months mat leave. The advice I’ve got is just to go back, do the six months and look for another job. But I know that relationship with work has soured they won’t care and can see them not being flexible if I have an issues with childcare or take time off for any reason. I suffer with anxiety as it is and mentality this is going difficult for me to manage.

Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation and how they dealt with it.

Sorry to hear they aren’t being supportive OP.

With two people I don’t really see the cover issue. There has been just one person and I assume they have taken holiday while you have been off…

I’m not advising this, but keep in mind if they won’t be flexible and it does cause a lot of anxiety, then you might be off sick for the 6 weeks you have to return.

I would submit it formally, they have structure they have to follow in terms of meeting and considering the request. They will also have to put the issue in writing to you.

Do you wfh OP? When I went back to work after mat leave I started working overtime when LO went to sleep so I could schedule emails & have "quiet Fridays" with her. It was tricky at times, but generally worked fine with me working longer on other days.

Work didn't know, were happy with my output, and even promoted me during this time. But I only had this flexibility to work at odd hours without anyone realising because of WFH and because I have flexibility over when I schedule calls etc

Just to say I was in exactly your position when I went back. I’d been full time and wanted to go part time. There was a lot of negotiation. They wouldn’t agree the three days I asked for, they begrudgingly agreed four ‘on a trial basis’. I could tell they weren’t happy, and like you said, it means they’re going to be difficult about sickness and emergencies etc. etc.

In the end, I just resigned without going back. Repaid the mat pay (which turned out to be a lot less than I expected) and was a SAHM for a few years. It took all the stress away. Yes, we had to tighten our belts but it was worth it in the long run.

Not saying that’s what you should do, just giving you my experience from the same situation. You need your employer onside when you have young children.

i totally agree having it all is BS. We are lied to by corporate companies that you can. My American boss suggested that I get a live in nanny when I raised the issue of not being above to do 730pm calls.

I have massively changed careers and have it all now… oh, except any money 😂😂

You've had a lot of incorrect advise on this thread. Legally, you don't need to argue your case about how it wouldn't affect the business. I think it was last year when the flexible working request requirements changes. I'm always a bit confused as to why people comment on these threads when they're spouting out of date information from when they personally did a flex working request 10 years ago 🙄

I thought this too but the form I was given is asking me to state how my proposed flexible hours would impact my team.

I do wfh mostly with a day in the office. I was considering this as the option but the issue is that they want cover for all 5 days over the core business hours which is I think 10-4pm. So I know they wouldn’t necessarily let me pick up work in the evening when my LO is a sleep to make up the time.

That’s similar to my original plan but they want cover for 5 days and argued they would have to find someone to cover the 0.1FTE. Which confused me if there’s 2 people including myself in the role, as there will be cover if the other person works full-time.

They may be concerned that you want full time pay for 4 days work. Perhaps they they are open to part time work and pro rata pay?

My company is supposed to be family friendly and inclusive but they don’t accept condensed hours. They do accept part time request with pro rata pay. I am sure many of us will work condensed hours otherwise yo have that extra free day.

Compressed hours I always feel is the hardest to get approved unless you are in a pure task based IC role where as long as you get your tasks done within the week it doesn’t matter how many days you are in. I did approve these where my team completed ‘cases’ so not being in one day was not a problem.

where it is managerial, project management, deadline driven it gets tricky… I had a manager same level as me on compressed hours and we would do the same hours Monday - Thursday because I would need to work overtime in the week to catch up from Friday when I had to deal with her team, and inevitably everything went wrong on a Friday as we worked off weekly deadlines. As PP said - it really went down like a shit sandwich with the rest of us. I had hoped it would give me some brownie points when I made me flexible request but it didn’t 😂

job share and pro rata pay is a scenario where it was much easier to find a solution. For pro rata pay we would use the savings to allow a junior employee to ‘step up’ and get some managerial experience on the other day. Job share roles we always had huge volume of applications! There are some additional costs associated with job shares - especially with overlap, such as paying for 2 laptops ect, but benefits include better business continuity during holidays, illness ect

Ask them for an updated form, it's likely they haven't changed it because of an oversight.

So I never agreed it with work - I just did it and didn't tell them. Scheduled work to send out on Fridays that I had done during overtime during the rest of the week. If I was interrupted by a call I popped DD in the playpen with the TV on and went and took it.

It wasn't ideal, but I got a day with her and also got all my work done on time and to deadline. And as I say I was promoted during that time. DD was an easy baby/one year old tho, so it might not be doable for you to WFH with your LO there for one day a week

Yes, the law changed in 2023 iirc. Employees no longer need to explain the impact of their proposed change on the business. However, since most of the grounds for refusal are business-related (cost, recruitment, quality, demand, etc) it’s always struck me as a distinction without a difference, because it would be daft not to at least give some thought to the likely business impact when trying to “sell” the FWR to the employer. I’ve seen a couple of unprepared people fluff the meeting when they wrongly assumed it wouldn’t come up.

Had a meeting yesterday morning with my manager and pointed out the FWR form is out of date as it is no longer a requirement to explain the effect of request on the employer. So thank god I don't have to justify myself.

But I asked my manager for an update on what's going on at work and basically they have had to step back from a lot of duties due to gaining more responsibilities, meaning I'll have more responsibilities and increased workload. For that reason she said they can't support compressed hours or 08/.0.9 over 4 days as my role needs 5 day coverage and its not viable to recruit someone for one day (or 0.1/0.2). Or I would need to cut my hour right down to 0.5 for it to be worth a job. 0.5 isn't even worth it as my monthly take home salary wouldn't even cover the bills, food and petrol. So basically it's full time or next to nothing.

For added context (or to recap), at present when I return there's 2 of us who do the same role, but I know the other person will be leaving but they didn't mention that on the call. But they did mention there is a recruitment freeze which has no end in sight therefore it's very likely when they leave, there's not going to be a replacement and therefore I'll be doing 2 people's job with the added workload my manager was doing.

My husband has been given the green light to basically do a 4 day week. I know some of you will be like well that's good and send our DS to nursery 4 days a week, but we can't send him to nursery more than 3 days a week and support from grandparents to take care of him on other day will be very difficult as both sets live over an hour away from us.

I just think it's complete BS that working mothers either can't get flexibility or cut salary right back to the pointless where it's just not worth it. Yet my husband's employer is more own to that and he has more responsibility than me.

My last resort is considering saying that I work remotely and we will just have to figure out what to do with my DS on the one day we don't have definite cover. As well as consider full time with flexi-time (basically cover core hours but choose when to start and end work). But after 6 months, I will hand in my notice and look for another job as the situation at work appears to be a complete poo show! Just wondering whether anyone else has done this and how sustainable it was with a baby/toddler at nursery.

Just finding this all mentally draining!

@GinAndCheese23 If you're going to have increased responsibilities and workload, will you be getting a commensurate pay rise?

It'll be a lot of bureaucracy and I've tried before I was pregnant and wasn't successful😬

I think I would be making the point that you have asked for your flexible working request to be considered and not only have they indicated that it will probably be refused, but they are now saying that your job is likely to be even less family friendly than it was before you went on maternity leave, but with no extra compensation.

Either way, I'd be working to rule while you wait the required number of months and then look for a more suitable job. Just because they want to increase your workload doesn't mean you have to do the extra work, if there's no gesture of goodwill from them in return.

Do you have room to have a grandparent (s) stay over 1 night a week ? Then they could do 2 days , your husband can do 1 and baby can go to nursery for 2 days . If you or your husband wfh on the grandparent days they will have lots of support . Obviously you need cooperative grandparents .

Still put in a flexible working form officially. Them having to decline it in writing may change their tunes. Slip ACAS into the conversation a bit about your increased workload, same pay & refusal to encourage flexible working for working mothers.

@GinAndCheese23 hope you don’t mind me jumping on this! But i am in the same position right now and wondering what you did in the end? I am considering resigning but would be a shame to give up my career. Have been trying to look for PT jobs but it’s tough our there

Your employer’s reasons for rejecting your request seem understandable.

relatively few employers will agree to full time pay for 4 days.

That’s good your H’s work has offered 4 days, in your situation would find the best possible childcare and keep your job.

Childcare costs are a shared household expense. usually worth continuing working to retain employability and build pension.

Something I find illuminating is when you ask someone working four days pw or a nine day fortnight, whether they work full time condensed hours or part time. I always find it is a proportion of the four days condensed hours staff (NOT all) who get slightly defensive and want to know why I am asking. When I explain if something urgent comes in on their working days, it will often make sense they cover it as they work a longer day than those working five days pw. You can often tell the people who are really condensing their hours and those who for the most part are trying to work part time on full time pay.