Flexible working request will potentially be declined

[GinAndCheese23]

I contacted my manger and HR to arrange a discussion about flexible work arrangements when I come back to work after maternity leave. It took forever for anyone to come to me with a date for a meeting. Instead I got a email on Friday afternoon, basically saying the flexible work options that I put forward would not be supported due to the structure of the team and requirements of the role as 2 people (including myself) perform this role and they need daily cover to maintain services levels. But happy to arrange a call to discuss further.

The flexible work options I put forward was either to condense my hours into 4 days or 0.9 FTE over 4 hours. They mentioned alternative arrangements, which I asked for them to suggest and the response was just to fill in my flexible work request form and explain how it’ll impact the team and how I’ll make it work for them. But to be honest what ever I’ll put down will be declined as even with me proposing what is a tiny adjustment is still not got enough.

Now here’s the joke, they didn’t provide maternity cover for my role, so have been working at reduced capacity since I went on leave 6 months ago. Plus the organisation has won awards for having an inclusive work place and prides itself on the benefits they have for working parents - clearly this is BS!

I really don’t want to go back full time and I don’t want to send my DS to nursery full time, our plan was to send him 3 days a week. One day I would have him and the other day grandparents will have him but they do live an hour away, so can’t really ask them to have him more often during the week.

One half of me thinks that are being awkward and are trying to find away to make it difficult for me so I will leave the organisation. But then the other half of me is thinking that they don’t know that I know the other person in my team is leaving and they want me to come back full time to pick up the workload as they have a trend when someone leaves they don’t replace the role.

It’s just a rubbish situation and quite frankly I don’t want to go back. But I have to otherwise I have to pay 6 months mat leave. The advice I’ve got is just to go back, do the six months and look for another job. But I know that relationship with work has soured they won’t care and can see them not being flexible if I have an issues with childcare or take time off for any reason. I suffer with anxiety as it is and mentality this is going difficult for me to manage.

Just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation and how they dealt with it.

That’s separate conversation that I’m not getting into 😅

Thank you! I’ll look into ACAS

Well I would love to but with these lots I’ve been burnt now not holding my cards too close to my chest. Plus at the moment there’s been a few people who have left with immediate effect under strange circumstances and I need to play this right

I know you say it’s not your responsibility to come up with the solution for the other day but It will be very likely they will not approve the request unless there is a clear solution.

it sounds as though they have a good case for saying there needs to be two people in the role over 5 days to ensure coverage for illness/leave ect. Therefore they will legally have justification to turn down any request that doesn’t involve a plan for someone in 5 days. I would say your best bet would be a job share. However from your post it seems that would not be a financially viable option?

I think you are in a tough spot here. Not backfilling your role during mat leave means they have realised they only need 1 FTE, not 2. If your colleague is leaving, if they do need cover every day, then they either need 1 FTE across all 5 days or a job share. A job share split 4:1 is almost impossible to find.

For them to accept your request you need to be able to demonstrate why the role doesn’t need covering on the 5th day.

Being a flexible employer doesn’t mean accepting every request. If you have one receptionist and they suddenly decide they only want to work 4 days, most businesses can’t just live with having no one on reception for the 5th day. It’s often role specific.

I feel like this was what I was trying to say but you said it better!

Some people have advised you to refuse overtime but I would be very careful with that. Contracts can have rather tricky clauses about "flexibility to meet the needs of the business" so there is a legal way they can expect you to do extra here and there (within reason).

Of course they have to pay you for the overtime or compensate you with TOIL but the expectation will probably be written into your contract.

This is exactly what I was going to say. Lots of contracts now DO have something in along these lines which essentially make refusing overtime a breach of contract, it is not always as simple as just refuse.

If I was you I’d be putting forward the argument for 0.8, 4 days in, 1 day off, your employer has the £ spare then to hire in someone to cover if needed, even if not the financial saving sweetens the deal for them a bit. Ultimately the reasons they have given are valid and legally sound, so you could go to ACAS or submit formally but they aren’t doing anything illegal- employer’s can absolutely refuse a request if it doesn’t work for the business.

Failing that, you need to sit down with your partner and have a frank and honest conversation about money in, money out, childcare and work. If money is an issue and you are the breadwinner, plus your employer isn’t open to flex, it makes more sense for your partner to step in.

Thank you! You’ve explained it well.

So basically I’m going to be backed into corner.

Just makes me think if my colleague wasn’t leaving and knowing that the job only requires 1 FTE whilst I was on leave what they would have done?

May I add they don’t know that I know my colleague is leaving and I haven’t disclosed that I know either. So I know the reason that they require 2 people is possibly not the whole truth.

Urgh I’m just going to have to wait out 6 months and hand in my notice 🤷🏼‍♀️ 😬

Yeah it’s becoming quite clear that whatever I suggest is possibly not going to make me happy.

In terms of my partner, he’s actually been granted his flexible working request basically on his wfh days he can work around childcare needs - I.e log on earlier or later. Again an option I was going to explore with my own employer but I was told before I went on leave that my role isn’t something you can do outside of core business hours so that’s likely to be rejected.

I really rather he doesn’t cut his hours as while I am the breadwinner the difference in our salary is small.

From memory they just need to justify for the role needing 5 days and not necessarily in regards to how many people are required because work load could change.

so as long as they can say the Role X is required for 5 day coverage because of x,y,z they have fulfilled their obligation. An employer can accept a request on the basis of for example, we have 5 FTE in the role and a flexible request has come in and we know we have the coverage so we will accept it. It’s up to them to accept.

i am afraid that whilst legally they have to consider a request - it still does not make it easy without a very strong case.

The more that’s been said on here, the more pointless it seems to both going through I formall process. I’m just going to do my six months so I don’t have to pay them and look for something else. TBH I wasn’t happy working there before going on mat leave and this has been the final nail.

Thank you all for your advice, it’s been so helpful ☺️

I’m sorry I’m not being positive! I was turned down for 4 days a week in a new role that was offered to me for my return and they didn’t even hire someone else after I said no and left - I was given a generous redundancy package so can’t complain.

i think it’s always worth asking though so go through the official channels and talk to hr to see if there is any arrangement they might feel they would accept

Oh and my company also won awards for their flexibility and inclusivity 😂😂

I tried to arrange a chat with HR before putting in my request - as per the flexible work policy as an employee it was my responsibility to do this, but they spoke to my manager and director and then manager emailed me with that response. So I am planning to quote that bit of the policy to insist having a meeting with HR before making a formal request if I feel I have a strong enough business case (doubt I have). I just need to know if possible is there at all any flexibility. No point of holding on to any hope and going through the formal process to be further disappointed.

Funny how it’s always these companies 🤣

If your role includes event management, I can see why you’d need to be available outside of core hours.

That’s not to say that there is not a significant amount of work that can take place independently though. You could include examples of how it could work in your application ..

do you have ideas of how your work would/could be structured?

I’m a statutory director and manager and approve most FWR’s, but there are a few things in your scenario that are always difficult:

• other people having FWA’s does not mean your role will work flexibly for the business. I had 4 out of a team of 6 working flexibly at one point. Great for them, but if the fifth had asked, it would have had to be a no! Ultimately business needs must come first.
• it’s tricky when there is an expectation of some unpaid overtime AND people wanting compressed hours. We’ve had all hands on deck for a project, late working, then “Sally” gets the day off on Friday and is paid the same as everyone else. It goes down like a shit sandwich with everyone except Sally!
• It is on you to explain how it can work for the business. My eyes roll like a fruit machine when I get a FWR that talks about little Freddy’s labyrinthine childcare arrangement and why it makes working x or y impossible, when it should be explaining why/how working flexibly wont adversely impact the business.

You might want to consider offering them a trial period - that has persuaded me in the past! Good luck.

From April 2024

What are the new work rules for April 2024?

April 2024: what has changed in employment law?
Employees can make two flexible working requests in 12 months (but only one at a time).
Employers have two months in which to respond.
Employers must consult with employees before refusing a request.
Employees no longer need to explain the impact of their request.

I’ve been really thinking hard about work could be structured but the issue is the nature of my role is complex. To give context, when I started around 2.5 years ago and there has always been scope that they will grow the team as the project I am working on will be expanded across the organisation therefore would need more resources to support that. Demand has grown but also there’s been many obstacles blocking developments. So basically the team at present is under resourced. Also because the organisation is struggling we are finding people’s roles are being stretched and when people leave there no replacements.

So in short I can’t think of solution to benefit my team and issues goes far beyond the team and an organisational issues in my opinion.

I think the more I say the best option is to get out as quick as possible 😅

I have had similar requests in my team and rejected them. It’s all about business needs and whether the reduction in days ie compressed hours leaves the business vulnerable on the nwd.
with compressed hours it means the fee is being spent but business hours not covered.
Often many staff requesting flexible hours often only see their own needs and from their own perspective but businesses have lots of considerations.
its often not about not being reasonable but priority will always be ensuring service needs are covered adequately and if not it’s perfectly reasonable for an employer to reject. It’s not personal but about business needs.
Often we will offer alternatives though.

While I get it from a business perspective, it shows how the system is broken for working mothers as it’s pretty much pointless saying we have a legal right to request flexible working for there to be more of a chance of the request being rejected than accepted.

Any examples of what alternatives you offered? I’m trying to put myself in the shoes of management and HR as I need some inspiration for my official FWR as I’ve asked this question to my employer and they have just dodged the question 🙄

One idea to consider:

0.9 compressed into 4 days. Day off as Wednesday. Use the extra 0.1 on a Monday & Tuesday to get slightly ahead and Thursday and Friday to catch up.

Trial it for 6 months and then mutual review to determine whether can make it a permanent arrangement.

If you’ve got accrued leave, even better as can
propose the trial is done by using 13 days of the accrued leave and booking one a fortnight.

It really depends on the role. Some people not being in the office is no big deal, for others it can be a total pain. Especially if they're in a support type role where others rely on them. I trial is a good idea. But on the positive side OP, it's not usually a good thing if it makes no difference if you're at work or not.

I do agree with you, but I really do think it depends on the role. I've now realised myself that my career choice isn't really compatible with working part-time or flexibly! That's why the "having it all" is such BS. You can have it all under specific circumstances and if something is neglected 🙄