Suspected sleep apnea and not informed DVLA

[CuriousRunner]

Employer here. (Well DH is. So I end up employer-by-proxy 🤣) To be clear, posting here for chatty advice and thoughts. Of course I’ll be actually seeking proper advice. But it’s a Sunday. And my brain likes to filter information like poo through septic tank layers. Various puzzle pieces are coming together and tomorrow action will be needed.

We’ve got an employee with suspected sleep apnea. I know pretty much nothing about the condition except what I’ve read in the last half a hour. But it is possible it is causing extreme tiredness. Likely no UK GP records as he goes him to his home European country for treatment.

There was an incident at work yesterday. This guy drives as part of his job.

My normal HR process would roughly be:
Invite someone for a meeting
Always start that we’re working together etc etc
State that while we make investigations moving employee to different duties or even suspend on full pay

BUT this guy drives an hour to/from work 🤔 This meeting would be better done face to face and roughly as above. But the idea of bringing someone to work for a meeting where we could likely remove him from driving duties while he’s here and then asking him to drive for an hour to have that meeting just jars with me!

I’d welcome anyone’s lay or informed opinion 😊

If only someone had invented a device you could use to speak to someone without having to be in the same location

🙄
I think this is best done face to face if at all possible/reasonable.

And that’s completely aside from the fact that English isn’t his first language and in fact his English is very limited.

Yes but thats what public transport is for. Why do people think that if someone cant drive they cant get anywhere?

Do you think teams or zoom would work? That’s kind of face to face and means he doesn’t have to drive?

My DH has sleep apnea and he has never had to report it to DVLA, nor had it stopped him driving. Now he's on the treatment (CPAP), he's only having a couple of apnotic events per night so probably better than a snorer.

Just to say the sleep apnea could be an issue, but if it's well controlled there's no reason for it to affect driving whatsoever.

He hasn't got a diagnosis yet. You don't know if sleep apnoea caused the incident. And he could use public transport to get to the meeting.

Screw it. I’ll wait until tomorrow and wait for paid legal/occ health.
We’re rural. Not everyone has the benefit of available public transport. They literally can’t get anywhere!

https://www.gov.uk/excessive-sleepiness-and-driving

You do have to inform the DVLA if you have moderate to severe sleep apnoea

Occupational health sounds like a good idea.

Sorry. Some cross posts there. We think he’s been diagnosed/treated in Eastern Europe.
Not 100% sure but think he fell asleep at the wheel yesterday

Nope, you have to report to them if you have confirmed moderate to severe with extreme daytime sleepiness.

They score you in the diagnosis process. You can score moderate without the excessive sleepiness and as long as you don't drive when tired you don't need to report. You can be diagnosed with mild sleep aponea but score highly for excessive daytime sleepiness and have to report it.

You need legal advice.
You have had an "incident" if this was a work accident your insurance company have clauses which could cost you if they refuse to cover any claim.
You are removing him from his role will your employment contract allow this?
He may or may not have a disability which may or may not prevent him from driving how do you legally establish his ability to drive while not engagaing in discrimination?
Get professional advice or you could end up with a massive employment tribunnral payout.

A few random thoughts:

You could go to see him rather than getting him to come to you.

I would wonder what were the bounds of your duty of care, and where it crosses over into interfering in his personal life (which may be a different, moral issue either way).

I presume the suspected incident was while at work?

Regardless, you will need proper professional HR advice, and safest might be to suspend him on full pay until you can get that.

Your DH should have reported this!!!

You need legal advice here. After the Glasgow bin lorry incident (no, it was not an accident) I would imagine there are legal ramifications if you suspected he passed out at the wheel and did nothing. How he gets to and from work is not your responsibility.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3we90ppxg5o

Thanks. Some helpful stuff!

@HowcanIhelp123those “shades of grey” re DVLA are interesting.

Thankfully the incident didn’t hurt anyone or anything. It was just an eye opener that meant that immediate investigation and further understanding is needed.

This could be job ending. (In this case even if he was formally classed as disabled) Any removal from his role would be temporary while we carried out investigation. There would be no loss of pay or status.

Yes, sleep apnea can be classed as a formal disability. Not always.

And I agree re personal life etc. If I knew for certain this was something that must stop someone from driving etc the question would be clearer. But we know no such thing yet. Although maybe a strong suspicion does put the onus back on us 🤷‍♀️

@monsterfishi remember that. Didn’t know the actual reason though.

Your husband would be in corporate manslaughter territory if he is let [(edit) a member of staff] drive while impaired.
This case has a note of driving and falling asleep from sleep apnea being dangerous driving.
https://www.keepmeontheroad.co.uk/blog/asleep-at-the-wheel-case-ruled-to-be-voluntary/

Have you checked if you need to report the incident as a serious event to the HSE as he has been redeployed?

How do you know that this employee has suspected sleep apnea?

Thanks guys! The shitty water filtering through my mental septic tank is getting clearer 🤣

On that occasion the driver had lied to both the DVLA and his employer about his blackouts which is why he went to court. If the employer knows or suspects they are duty bound to investigate.

No he shouldn't. He asked the consultant at the sleep clinic directly if he needed to report it and was told no. He was below the reportable score on excessive daytime sleepiness. And then he got on CPAP and his apnotic events are negligible. He sleeps better than snorers. He's no more tired than someone without sleep apnea because it is really well controlled.

If he had an accident it wouldn't be his apnea at fault. It's like saying someone who needs glasses should be reported to the DVLA and any accident where they 'didn't see' something is because they shouldn't have been driving because of their eyesight. People with sleep apnea on CPAP, well controlled, is no problem. If they go out partying several nights in a row, give themselves 3 hours sleep then fall asleep at the wheel it's not the apnea, it's that person's decisions.

This is my point, lots of people posting with zero clue. If you believe he's fallen asleep at the wheel then you need to prove that. But sleep apnea itself is no problem and doesn't necessarily exclude you from a driving job.

@HowcanIhelp123he probably sleep better than me as a menopausal woman 🤣

Sleep apnea does cause people to just fall asleep, tiredness does .

@MrsArcher23he told us he was having treatment for sleep apnea back in his home country. But it was only with the incident yesterday that the puzzle pieces are maybe falling into place. Or maybe not! Which is why we need a solid occ health investigation