Suspected sleep apnea and not informed DVLA

[CuriousRunner]

Employer here. (Well DH is. So I end up employer-by-proxy 🤣) To be clear, posting here for chatty advice and thoughts. Of course I’ll be actually seeking proper advice. But it’s a Sunday. And my brain likes to filter information like poo through septic tank layers. Various puzzle pieces are coming together and tomorrow action will be needed.

We’ve got an employee with suspected sleep apnea. I know pretty much nothing about the condition except what I’ve read in the last half a hour. But it is possible it is causing extreme tiredness. Likely no UK GP records as he goes him to his home European country for treatment.

There was an incident at work yesterday. This guy drives as part of his job.

My normal HR process would roughly be:
Invite someone for a meeting
Always start that we’re working together etc etc
State that while we make investigations moving employee to different duties or even suspend on full pay

BUT this guy drives an hour to/from work 🤔 This meeting would be better done face to face and roughly as above. But the idea of bringing someone to work for a meeting where we could likely remove him from driving duties while he’s here and then asking him to drive for an hour to have that meeting just jars with me!

I’d welcome anyone’s lay or informed opinion 😊

Yes. If someone has sleep apnoea they legally have to inform DVLA. If it is under treatment then they can go on as normal as long as they go no longer than something like 4 nights in a row without wearing their CPAP.

@howcanIhelp The advice your husband has been given is very different to the advice mine was given. He was told it was the diagnosis not the severity. But this maybe an over cautious consultant.

@CuriousRunner Get legal advice but I would be addressing this formally with the employee. I would certainly be going down the occ health route and asking for a check up.

@pompey38 yes. Which is another thing that doesn’t quite add up. Another reason for a more thorough investigation. Action is needed but trying to be the right level of cautious vs knee jerk

Cab then

But even that is a red herring, its not your business how and why he gets to an appointment so I dont think there is a contradiction in him arriving for a meeting, which he may or may not have driven to, and you saying you're taking him off driving duties.

Just reading th rest of the thread, so are you saying OP that you knew he had sleep apnea (although not the severity of course) but continued to employ him in a driving role?

Sleep apnea, well controlled for example by CPAP, does not stop you having a driving role. No more than not having perfect eyesight and wearing glasses that bring your vision to a legally acceptable standard.

Just like glasses, effective therapy makes you just like a non-effected person.

No it doesnt. But unless OP has missed out information, she doesnt know whether he was fit to drive, declared it and given the ok or didnt declare it, didnt need to. Doesnt know any of that.

Organisational risk.

If he doesn't speak English how is he reading road signs ?

This is a good question although I’m sure there’s a sensible answer as OP sounds like a decent employer (by proxy!) 😉

Thank you for posting this, OP. You’ve given me me the push I need to speak to my doctor about my suspected Sleep Apnea. I’ve been ignoring it too long and the last thing I need is to be unable to drive.

This has also made me realise why I’ve been so sleepy during the day lately!! 🤦🏼‍♀️ Total common sense I know, but I’d never put those pieces together before. So glad I read this thread!

Heavens. His English is good enough to read road signs and receive work instructions. But that’s a long way from having an in depth HR related conversation about employment and medical matters.

Yes we knew about the sleep apnea. We knew he was being treated/managed. We didn’t know about DVLA and as many have stated it’s not an absolute binary response to that anyway. We aren’t medics and there was nothing in his day to day behaviour or work to suggest any problems.

The first we knew that there was an (possible!) issue was yesterday. He hasn’t worked today. Tomorrow we will deal by removing him from driving duties while we investigate. Organisational Risk managed.

Nice one @OldCottageGreenhouse I hope you get an answer swiftly.

Oh but it does. If you're waking up 100 times in the night or more you will be more tires during the day.

I had extreme sleep apnoea and was waking up practically every minute. I would need 10-12 hours sleep and even sitting down would cause me to go to sleep. Last check I had no episodes and two snoring episodes. I rarely fall asleep during the day.

You need to up your game as an employer did he not have a medical at the start of his employment?

If he had a medical history and a medical why was this not picked up as a risk?

Whats your policy for drivers and their obligation to notify you of any change of medical/health status and your provision of H&S equipment?
Eg hes a non-citizen so depending on NI payments and qualifying for healthcare: who has an obligation to provide eye tests/glasses if his eye sight fails to meet the driving standard & once failed has he a contractual obligation to use glasses while driving?

Can you random drink/drug test?
Can you drink/drug test after an accident?

If he has a UK commercial driving licence who has been providing the medical reports?
Had that medic been given a full history?

Has the driver been using a non-uk doctor to circumvent the UK doctors obligation to notify the DVLA of a reportable condition?

He may or may not have a disability which may or may not prevent him from driving how do you legally establish his ability to drive while not engagaing in discrimination?

remember there is duty of care and safety at stake here.

plus it is not in any way discriminatory to have a formal discussion with the employee about a health related matter that affects his ability to discharge his contractual duties safely and effectively. If he has not been truthful and / or if he hasn't disclosed the diagnosed sleep apnea to DVLA then he is breaking the law by continuing to drive without them knowing.

also bear in mind if he is driving a company vehicle having not disclosed his health condition, it may well nullify your company car insurance. And if he falls asleep at the wheel and kills someone while on company business....

this is all kinds of wrong, if I've interpreted the situation correctly.

you should use Teams rather than him driving for an hour at the moment.

the fact his English is poor is another risk, not to be able to communicate with him effectively about such a critical issue.

His private medical information. She could and should ask occupational health to assess him, but she isn't entitled to his medical information and if he says he's good to drive then she has to take that at face value. He should tell occupational health what's going on and they will give recommendations.

Actually, SA IS a reportable condition and he should've reported it
DH has SA - no problem, as he uses a CPAP
I know if someone who lost their licence and had to apply to get it back

@AnSolasHes been employed with us for 10 years an onboarding medical would not be relevant. This isn’t an industry or driving ar a level where an annual medical would take place. A commercial driving licence isn’t relevant to this situation. Based on a previous occ health situation I suspect we’ll contract for a private independent medical review. I cannot speak to his motives for using non-Uk. But I would say it’s very common for guys from Eastern Europe to go home for medical treatment generally. (Maybe it’s better or faster. Who knows). Whether his motives include circumventing us and/or DVLA I of course cannot know. And if he is circumventing our policy about notifying us he’ll be ignoring also.

She is not obliged to take his word that he is good to drive.
And he has an contractual obligation (or should have) to disclose relevant medical history to qualify for the companys insurance cover.

The employer now have a obligation to prove that going forward he can safely use provided equipment. So the OP needs medical confirmation that he can safely use the equipment and that he will be covered by their insurance policy.

Is the OP has not already informed the insurance company of his known (by the company) medical history the current policy may be void.

Plus they have an obligation to investigate the incident where he lost control of provided equipment and review their work process to minimise a possible second incident with a more dangerous outcome.
The outcome may result in the employee being subject to a disciplinary

The outcome might be that disability or not his employment will have to be terminated once correct procedures have been followed.

It is reportable if it reaches certain thresholds, which my DHs did not. As he I said, he asked the sleep clinic consultant directly and was told he was fine to drive based on his scores and did not meet the threshold for reporting to DVLA.

He uses a CPAP machine that records his sleep and sends data to the sleep clinic. He has regular reviews, it's very well controlled.

My now ex took on a job in a driving role with a big company. He was diagnosed with a sleep clinic and nurse with sleep apnoea. He did not tell his company. He fell asleep at the wheel while we were still together, taken to hospital had a minor crash and still his SA was not divulged by him and not on his records somehow even though he is at the highest end and has to sleep with a cpap machine every night. He is still in this job, still driving, still nothing is noted about his condition so it is worrying for the general public.

May I suggest

The issue isnt that he may or may not have sleep apnoea, the issue I suggest from an employers perspective that he had a Road Traffic Collision when driving at work and that as the employer you are quite rightly investigating it.

Your concern needs to be more that he appears to have fallen asleep at the wheel than the underlying reason

Have you thought of reporting him to the DVLA?

This is an extreme example of a driver falling asleep at the wheel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selby_rail_crash

In particular

Hart was tried at Leeds Crown Court on ten counts of causing death by dangerous driving.[38] He pleaded not guilty. The prosecution alleged that Hart had fallen asleep while driving, after having spent five hours the previous night on the phone to a woman he had met through an advert on an internet dating agency.[39] He had been on the phone call from 21:48 to 02:58, and sent text messages between 03:11 and 03:57. He did not get any sleep before leaving his house and starting his journey 90 minutes after the end of the phone call.[40]