ACAS?? sexual harassment at work, not sure if theres any point taking things further but I feel so let down.

[Brassbumblebee]

Hello everyone.

I want to keep this short but I also dont want to leave out any important information so please bare with me.
The guy in question (we will call S) has since left work and I have just returned after 6 weeks sick leave due to poor mental health that stemmed from this issue, but for transparency I have other things going on too so it's not totally to blame.

When I first started this job I got on really well with the whole team, S in particular, hes older than me so at first I thought nothing of it (I'm 38 and hes around 60) but then he started messaging outside of work and calling me, telling me he adored me etc.. it made me very uncomfortable and with the help of friends (I'm new to setting boundaries so this alone was difficult for me) I managed to tell him to back off but in a "nice, professional" way because I didnt want to make things awkward at work. But I did have a conversation with my ex boss about this, unfortunately this was a "off the record" type chat, I thought the situation was dealt with but I just wanted to make her aware in case anything else happened.

He backed off in a sense, but after that he would constantly (and I mean like every time I saw him) make a comment about what I was wearing, eating, whether I seemed to have gained or lost weight, my make up (one time he called me a whore because i had lipstick on) this made me really uncomfortable and paranoid, I dreaded going into work and I spoke to my new boss and other colleagues about this as well as our senior team lead, who we will call X.
I would often have conversations X about S behaviour, X would act dumb to it or agree and say things like "well hes just a dick isnt he"?.
It wouldnt stop so i went back to my boss, she had a meeting with him but didnt say who it was that had made the complaint, he just talked to him about his over all behaviour and unprofessionalism (is that a word?? Lol) he acted a little but sheepish for a while but was soon back to his old ways. Not long after the meeting, my old boss left.

I brought it up to my new boss and she said he was also making her uncomfortable but at the time, other than some hearsay, she didnt have any concrete evidence to do anything.

Theres a lot more to this, yes I did ask S to stop what he was doing, repeatedly, but he would say things like "ah I cant help it, it's just who i am" etc
For all the things that got SAID, it was the things that didnt get said that had the most impact.. the atmosphere, the way I'd walk into a room and everyone got silent, the way he would look at me, I could sometimes sense him gesturing behind my back, infront of other staff! But they said nothing or just looked embarrassed.
When I would ask them, they denied any knowledge of it.. but I fuckin knew in my gut something was happening..

Anyway, S left just before Christmas. Yay.
Since hes left though, one of my other colleagues who we will call R, obviously felt like enough time had passed so it was safe to tell me what had actually been going on. Long and short of it, S was always making sexual remarks about me and stuff along the lines of "what I would do to her" but quiet disgusting, so much so R was embarrassed to tell me exactly what.. but I can imagine..

Now, what I'm really struggling with, as I said I have since returned to work (yesterday) and I had a meeting with my boss last week and she knows everything and has since put some sexual harassment training in place which is great.. trouble is.. I feel like I've lost all trust, the WHOLE team knew (all men I will add). for almost TWO years what was happening. They (my colleagues) listened to me when would be upset at something S had said or done, all the time I KNEW there was something happening but I didnt quite know what but they did.. and they all kept quiet.. I feel so let down and vulnerable now..

Anyway, that's what happened.. I dont know what to do but I don't feel like I'm ready to just simply drop it and move on.. I'm thinking of planning an ambush type meeting where I can get everyone in the same room and get to the bottom of all this haha. Should I leave and not look back? Urgh Idk... any suggestions?

Oh if it helps I'm a support worker and we all work in a supported living home for adults with learning disabilities.

Oh op. I feel for you. How utterly shit of your team. I wouldn't be surprised if he had done this to your clients too. I have no knowledge of legal stuff. I don't know if you can retrospectively do anything. But the trust has gone hasn't it? Your colleagues won't keep you safe.

Well this is what bothers me too, the man should never have been working there in the first place, I brought this up numerous times but because it was all "hearsay" or simply a "bad feeling" nothing could be done.. thing is, it was only hearsay to ME, everyone else heard it from the horses mouth so THEY could have said something with evidence but they didnt..

Yes trust has gone, my manager did say she could offer me a transfer (sorry I left that out) so I have that option but I really love where I work and the people we support, I'm really good at my job too and I dont want to leave but im feeling more like I dont have a choice

Oh I will add as far as I'm aware, he was great with the people we support.
I might find it difficult to defend myself but trust me when I say I would never let anything happen to the people I support. I'd actually raise hell in that case 🤣

Did he just leave or was he asked to leave? I’m surprised it was allowed to go on for so long. Your colleagues are arseholes to allow this to happen.

If you want to carry on working there, I’m not sure there is much you can do.

if you feel that you can’t go back and work with the existing team as they are all aware of everything that was going on and it is too uncomfortable for you, then you could have some options which would be worth discussing with acas

essentially, your employer has failed to protect you from sexual harassment in the workplace; if you haven’t raised a grievance yet, then that would normally be your internal route of redress

however, as you have completely lost trust in your employer, you could speak to a as about whether you have ground for a claim for sexual harassment against your employer - they have a duty to protect you from this
you’d be advised to go through medication first (acas would support this), and your employer might offer a settlement agreement rather than go to an employment tribunal.

as I say, you really do need to speak to acas/a lawyer first as they will be able to advise more accurately.

Thank you. It feels good to ge all this out and hav emy feeling validated.. I felt like I was going mad for the longest time.

He went on the sick for months, took the piss out of the company's sick pay policy then left.

Oh ok thank you.. so would I have a case for sexual harassment then?

I am not a lawyer, but I think so: www.acas.org.uk/sexual-harassment/steps-for-employers-to-prevent-sexual-harassment#:~:text=What%20the%20law%20says,effect%20on%2026%20October%202024.

Ok thank you.. I will ring them tomorrow. At the very least it will help me to decide what I actually want to do.

I doubt it very much. What happened to you was awful, but it does seem that on each occasion you raised it, the employer (that is, your manager) did do something. In my opinion (but I don't have full facts) they didn't do enough, but they did act, and it also appears that you did not pursue the grievance process but relied on "having a word". There also seems to have been a question of lack of evidence (you haven't disputed what the new manager said, so I will take that as you accepted that explanation at that time). Your most recent complaint is against your colleagues, and the employer has dealt with that.

I am going to throw in that you don't know for a fact that nothing was done - I find the fact that he went off sick for what you suggest was some time and then resigned without returning quite telling. It may be a coincidence, but that is often the action of someone facing a discipinary process.

Your real complaint, however, is about your colleagues, who knew what was happening and said and did nothing. That is not the employers fault. It was your colleagues who did nothing (great colleagues, they are) - they are spineless gits but the law does not require your colleagues to do something. If they had gone to the employer and the employer did nothing - then yes, you would have a case. But they didn't. And it was their inaction that led to the manager not having the evidence to do anything, but despite that the managers did act, and did offer you options.

You are also up against it on timescales. S left before Christmas, but had been off sick. So the last act of harassment must have been many week ago. You may have only recently found out what he was doing, but that doesn't count because the claim isn't against your colleagues - it is against the employer/him. To make any claim you must make it within three months less a day of the last act that you complained of. So I am fairly certain that you are already out of time.

On the face of what you are saying, your employer did nothing wrong, and your colleagues are spineless gits but are not themselves responsible for anything more than that.

Ok thanks. Then I leave because I don't what to work with spineless gits. 💁‍♀️

Oh and I will add. No she hasnt spoken to my other colleagues, I specifically asked her as I wanted to know who knew what before I went back.
She has put training in place but didnt say why and that's not speculation on my part, unless shes lieing but I doubt it.

I think the only thing you can address is how the employer 'didn't do enough' so you'd effectively be raising a grievance towards the process, or more the lack of but not the sexual harassment itself.

I disagree to an extent that you should've raised a formal grievance -alerting your management is enough for them to spearhead that for you. The only bit of advice for the future I have here is that anything you need addressing HAS to be put forward via email. Always have a paper trail, no matter how big or small the issue is.

As to your work colleagues, shame really. I always have the attitude that when someone is breaking an aspect of business conduct and someone knows about it and chooses to do nothing, they are themselves breaking said conduct. Nothing you can do about that now. You can't raise a grievance over everyone in the office.

I understand you're upset and feel let down by your colleagues but I wouldn't leave on their account. There are lots of reasons why a collective may choose to stay quiet. Fear of retaliation etc

I'm so sorry this is happening. There are a couple of concrete actions you can do, which might help your case.

• keep a diary, writing down every incident that occurs. Make sure it's dated.
• Try and get witnesses who will back you up
• get what is going on IN WRITING. So don't just ask him verbally to stop - text/email him, asking him to stop. Within that text, detail exactly the kinds of behaviours he has been doing. So for example, 'I find it really uncomfortable when you call me xyz or talk about having sex with me'. Also detail the impact that it is having on you - 'it's making it hard for me to work with you and I constantly feel watched and upset'. This is so that you have concrete evidence about what he's doing, in writing, and also that you have concrete evidence that you asked him to stop, he knew the effect he was having on you, and he didn't stop. Any response from him (apart from flat out denial), including an apology, or just 'i can't stop', will be taken as an admission of guilt. This way you have concrete evidence to bring to a manager, or even to a court (if you so choose).

I am so sorry this is happening. What a disgusting, horrible man.

I may be misinterpreting the signals - depending on a partial third party story (yours) isn't dependable evidence. But I suspect that, as I said previously, he was facing an investigation or disciplinary (the reason for going off sick and then resigning) and she may have known (perhaps from a colleague who wasn't willing to put their name to it?) or suspected what your colleagues knew. In either case, it would be entirely inappropriate to tell you those details. Despite being the victim of the harassment, even had you had ironclad evidence of his behaviour and submitted a grievance, you would have had no right to know the outcome of a grievance as far as any action against him was concerned. Employers have a duty of care and confidentiality even where someone is a nasty piece of work. So they couldn't / shouldn't tell you. They would be expected to tell you that your grievance is upheld (assuming it were) but should not tell you that someone is then subject to disciplinary action / dismissed. You might guess. You might hear it on the grapevine. But you shouldn't be told that. And if she confidentiallly was told by a collegaue or spoke to your collegaues, she may not be in a position to tell you that either. It isn't lying per se. It is being a fair manager. I might have, in those circumstances, told you that I can't discuss it with you, but she may have not felt that was the best approach. Sometimes, being a manager is a judgement call that is always the wrong one!

@theallotmentqueen You may not have noticed, but said harasser resigned before Christmas. All good advice but unfortunately too late for acting upon.

@theallotmentqueen the guy left now

Thanks everyone, yeah I havent seen the guy since MAY or something but I only actually found out what what's happening 7 weeks ago, I couldnt really do anything about it before because I didnt know and that's the point. But our senior, X, did and I'm angry at him more than anyone..

I'm still not 100% on what to do with regards to leaving, I may still ask for a meeting with everyone to get it all out so I can move on, my current manager has been great now she knows too (she was in the dark until I told her) so I'm sure she would arrange it if I asked.

I am slightly confused, although it may not make any difference. What exactly did X know about? You said originally that you spoke to X about the harassment. Are you now saying that he knew about what the colleagues knew? If so, how did he know? Or are you angry at him for not dealing with the direct harassment from S when you spoke to him (i.e. before last May when I assume S went off sick?).

Separately from that, if you can face it, I actually think that no matter what you decide to do about the job, it's an incredibly brave thing to do, to tell your colleagues what they have done. I also think it might be good for you. All too often people live with the regret of what they didn't do for years. You can't roll back the clock and deal with S differently. But you can tell your colleagues what they did, that you know they did it, and how that makes you feel about them. To be honest, I believe that will be a far more powerful message than some training. Whilst there might have been numerous reasons for their silence, I still maintain that they were spineless - they had, individually and collectively, the power to stop him in his tracks, and they chose not to. They should know what their decision did to you - and to them. It made them complicit. No matter what their excuse is, it made them no better than him. And they ought to hear that. Hopefully, one day, one of them might be in a position to make a different decision and make a difference in someone elses life. No amount of training will ever be as powerful as you telling them what they did.

If you do decide that is what you want to do, it might be an idea to ask your manager to bring in a mediator - a neutral person who can control the space. There are people who specialise in facilitating such difficult discussions, who can ensure that you are ok at the end of it. A trade union or Women's Aid usually have contacts for such people. It's also perhaps worth joining a union if you aren't in one - it can't make problems go away in a puff of smoke, but at least it can give you someone on your side.

@EmmaMaria

Thank you for your response.

Well X works along side us, he is the senior/team lead (our manager hardly ever comes in so hes supposed to be in charge) hes in with us all just as much as everyone else, he knew about all of too, they all did, and what sickens me is if he/they were all joining in with S.. now I'm thinking back to certain times and they way S would be around X and it's kinda making sense. I would go to him with all my worrys (we generally get on well, or so I thought) and he would listen in but kinda dodge it which made me feel like I was going mad or blowing it all out of proportion.

Haha yes I'm thinking along the same times of you, I think I will look for another job (I'll be snapped up I'm honestly not worried about finding another job) have my meeting with them all then hand my notice in.

All of *it

Didn't we get an edit button on here??

I think I'd have to leave @Brassbumblebee knowing that all the men you worked with knew what he was like but chose to do or say nothing. They hung you out to dry because it was easier for them than getting involved. They told themselves he was all talk but they didn't know that, did they?

Yeah exactly, using the "oh it's just what hes like!" Excuse.
Yes hes like that because he has been allowed to get away with it his entire life.
This will be a learning opportunity for us all lol

There is a new law in terms of the company failing to prevent sexual harassment

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-protections-from-sexual-harassment-come-into-force#:~:text=Employers%20now%20have%20a%20legal,create%20a%20safe%20working%20environment.&text=New%20duty%20under%20the%20Equality,sexual%20harassment%20of%20their%20employees.

But that came in oct 24 and the harassment was May 24 or before.