Career mums, help! Can I negotiate for family life with new job?

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Big career/professional mums. I’m in the late stages for an external interview and it’s quite a step up. I’m feeling nervous but good-nervous. The only thing that concerns me is that I have a three year-old and we were maybe thinking about starting for number two this year. So far the company hasn’t mentioned anything about their family leave policy, anything about flexible arrangements etc cetera. It’s quite a male dominated sector.

How should I approach a negotiation/ expectation setting if an offer comes through? I want assurance that they are okay about things like pick-up, child illness etc. What kind of things would you say to approach the “I am a mum!” reality without putting them off? I currently work four days and they’ve already said they would be hoping for five.

TLDR Do you think I can make a big, managerial job work for me or should I walk away from the opportunity because I have such young/needy age child(ren)? Separate points – do you think it’s just unethical to take the job where I would be the department manager and then potentially get pregnant within the year?

All perspectives form people who’ve been in similar situations are welcome.

Child illness I'd expect to cover using annual leave. So check the leave allowance.

Doing nursery or school pick ups then would depend on working hours or putting in a flexible working request.

I had child whilst in "big managerial role".

Well, there's definitely a negotiation to be had, if they're 'hoping for 5' days when you've said you currently work 4. You could offer up something like a 9 day fortnight, with flexibility for pick ups some (all?) days.

It's not unethical to take a managerial role and then get pregnant within a year, not at all, lots of people do that. But I would think ahead to when you've got a school age child and a baby/toddler and how the logistics of that would work.

Not unethical to take job when planning to ttc.

If you want to negotiate part time or compressed working or 9 day fortnight, try post offer, if they say it’s full time or nothing those are your choices, eg decline the offer or take it full time then seek to negotiate changes later.

Wouldn’t raise routine things like time off on annual leave at short notice until in position and you’ve read the HR policies etc. It’ll help if you split all such time off with your partner, if you have one.

Always try and make it work and if it doesn't work, then reconsider, easier to do that way round. I've always found it's not as scary as it seems.

I personally found it much easier having a "bigger" job vs a "smaller" one when it comes to flexibility, I am trusted by management, own my own diary, and just generally don't have to justify my existence like it felt like early in my career. Never had to use leave for child sickness, always just worked from home or had a silent understanding to do what I needed to do (by silent I mean, have basically never been forced to do anything 'official' absence like submitted and using leave).

I have a corporate job, high salary, expected long hours, full time hours (and then some). My partner works full time too.

If the role interests you, go for it. You won't know if you don't try. And I don't think it's unethical to go for it and then have a baby - it's life and they will survive. If anything, mat leave will give you time to reflect if you do like it.

I personally wouldn't negotiate flexibility in the interview. Generically ask the approach to flexibility but don't pin down specifics. As someone else has said, somewhat ironically flexibility is often easier in the bigger jobs. I give a lot. I work long hours, often online at 6am and still on a call at 10pm (global teams) but I have no issue taking time to watch my daughters show or leaving at 3 on a Friday to do pick up. Flexibility works both ways and a good employer will be happy to honour it if you're delivering on your side.

Totally agree with the last two posters. It's almost easier in a big role as you should be treated like a grown up and manage your own time.
I've never taken annual leave for child sickness and have usually managed to get to all my kids shows, assemblies etc.
I do have a supportive partner and grandparents happy to help out, so that makes a difference.

Wait for them to offer you the job. They need to decide that they want you.

Then negotiate - a 9 day fortnight is common in my world, with variable "10th days" off.

If they really want you, they'll think about your request seriously.

And yes just to reiterate what others have said, always wait for the job offer first, and then negotiate what you need.

It’s normal to make allowances if a child is ill. However, to ask for time to pick up children not so much - you’re expected to sort out childcare arrangements (except odd emergency).

Regarding pregnancy, life happens. I wouldn’t let this worry you.

Thanks so much everyone. Yes of course, when you're senior nobody clock-checks your diary. I'd be moving from a high pressure, churn & burn type of firm to an in-house role. It'd be just me and one other person. Perhaps I'm too conditioned to be treated like a cog in a watched-machine and would need to instead assume the role of leader.
Out of interest, what are your strategies for ensuring you're a present parent? Do you pick up work after bedtime every single day? Negotiate WFH instead?

Make sure your husband/ partner is having similar negotiations if your job is meaning you'll be less available.

You say it is a male-dominated sector. You cannot expect to be treated equally and given the same opportunities as men, and also expect your employer to allow for your family life taking priority over your work.

They either treat everyone equally or they don't.

I'm sorry, what @theboffinsarecoming ?! I think you've misunderstood a few things here. Moving on...

No, she understood.
You're in a male dominated role.
Are your colleagues doing school pick ups? Are they doing what you're asking?

If not you will stand out. And not necessarily in a good way.

You can't win at everything.
You need good sturdy childcare.
Drop the dream of school runs.

None of the parents I work with use annual leave when their child is sick. I work in a male dominated environment in a market not particularly known for its family friendliness.

To me, in a 'big managerial job' there are no set hours and you can be flexible as long as you meet goals/expectations. Unfortunately, OP, this is often an unspoken rule in lots of workplaces so you might not get anywhere by asking about it at an interview. Do you know anyone at the company who you can ask to check?

You can't win at everything.
You need good sturdy childcare.
Drop the dream of school runs.

What now? Plenty of senior men and women step away to do pick up. If there are no urgent client needs, why would this be an issue? It's no different from relieving the nanny at 7pm and putting the kids to bed. These jobs are not typical 9-5 jobs.

Wow, cannot believe that ppl are saying basically you will have to be like a man, BS , men should be taking more child care responsibilities like women!
Also my understanding is prospective employers are not allowed to ask questions about your family situation, so just don't mention anything, any there are flexible working laws now too. So ill children can be accommodated for. Go for it, good luck.

So is OPs husband making the same arrangements?

I believe she has unrealistic expectations.
This is a job.

You can't have it all. That was a lie sold to women.

Because it fully depends on what the contract says.
They could be key working hours.

Please don’t say “ I am a mum “ to them. Many of them will be dads, don’t expect a medal for procreating.

Buy in decent child care / help at home.

Use family help if you can but don’t exploit people - it’s your baby not theirs.

Make sure your partner / baby’s father is also making compromises. Does he work 4 days a week now? If not it’s his turn, so you can do 5 days.

Being a parent requires compromises. You can’t have it all - they lied to you.
You can’t expect your brand new employer to make compromises for you while you and your baby’s father make none.

Dont have another baby until you are sure you can work things ok in your new role ( I’m assuming you are not 43 so it’s not urgent ).

I think @theboffinsarecoming is exactly right. In the ‘big managerial’ job I want someone who can flex for me and sort their flex for kids themselves, accepting that that luxury of attending the 10am assembly might mean an 8pm call/work and missing bedtime.

If they started asking in the interview about school runs, I’m not interested. Use your common sense and work it out. You’re paid to lead, manage and develop the business.

You will stand out from your colleagues, who will be parents as well and actively engaged ones too. Don’t become the ‘mummy’ of the team and let yourself down by harping about ‘im a mum’ when the men aren’t harping about ‘im a dad’
My school runs just say unavailable in my diary - as do my male colleagues.

It's not about having it all. It's about reaching a level of seniority where you're not measured on your ability to sit at a desk between set hours but on your output. It might surprise you to learn that most men want the same thing in a senior job - to be trusted to manage their time and not micro-managed by leadership.

It only seems to be an issue when a woman uses this privileged status to manage family and career. Sounds like envy to me.

Btw I have no kids so I have no skin in the game. OP's expectation for a degree of flexibility in a senior managerial role is not, on the face of it, unreasonable, or unrealistic in many industries.