Losing my leave

[mumof2wife]

Should I be bothered ?

Started a new job 6m ago. Love it.
Large organization. Love the work. Best job I've had. But they don't care about their staff at all and people always leaving - we are just numbers and figures so it's not a job for life but for now.

The annual leave policy is use or lose. Which is fine. In over 20 odd years of working I've never lost leave. Always managed to use or carry over but they don't do that.

However been trying to take the last 2 poxy days since DECEMBER! Keeps getting rejected. Time after time so today I talk to the manager to see if they can help me find days I can take who says

'Use it or lose it
Its policy
Sends link to policy
Please don't message anymore basically but in a nicer way! All through teams chat
We all wfh.

I've asked if we can try and sort out as I have been trying and I don't want to lose 2 days but I got the same response
And 'now I know for 2025 book it all up in one go'

To be fair it IS policy and it is clear
But surely use or lose should be for people not trying to request?

It's wound me up today and normally things don't bother me
It's 2 days I know not much
But also that's 2 days work where I could be at home with my children

I also got there are others who have also made the same mistake

When I spoke to my colleges they just said they don't really care about the staff

No employment rights I know so just thought I'd get others opinions

Thanks for reading x

I second calling ACAS

So it's a call Centre with a call center manager who gets the approval of all leave
My team leader has nothing to do with annual leave and he has tried to help
I've set up a meeting with him as it was all on teams and i didn't want to to argue it out on teams
He said he can speak to HR but it's unlikely they will help 'as it's policy' so I'm addressing a letter direct to HR
I agree he isn't very nice manager imo

if your employer is not allowing / facilitating you taking your leave they are likely to be in breach of the Working Time Regulations - they can be fined for this

I’d do this aswell. It’s deliberate from your manager. Doesn’t sound like a great company to work for long term

I knew it would be a call centre, typical of the incompetent over promoted with an over inflated sense of self importance twats who run these places

What reason have they given for rejecting it? Others off on the days you have requested? If so, I find it hard to believe there are no days between now and the end of March when no one else is off?

It’s ridiculous to tell you it’s too late when it’s not the end of January yet.

I would email the following to HR/your manager - all higher ups.

Dear X,

As you know I have been trying to take my leave for some time but have continued to have issues. I have two days remaining to take before the end of March but I am currently not being given a date when I can take this.

I have put in X number of requests which have all been rejected. I first requested this holiday on X date. Given between the first request and the end of the holiday year is X months, I thought I was leaving plenty of time and didn’t anticipate any issues at all.

I understand we are short staffed due to various people leaving however this doesn’t impact my right to take holiday. Given it’s a use it or lose it policy and I can’t carry over leave, I will need you to provide a time where I can use the leave.

I have been told by X that I have already lost the holiday and to accept it along with other staff in a similar situation. However, given there is still 2 months before the holiday year end, I fail to see why 2 days leave request can’t be accommodated as this is more than sufficient notice. I have checked my contract and onboarding info and there was nothing in there about needing to book by a certain date.

I have set out 3 holiday options below where I am happy to take the leave. If none of these are acceptable please provide me with an alternative date.

Date 1
Date 2
Date 3

Please respond to me by x date otherwise I will assume the first date above has been accepted.

Thank you,

😂😂😂😂this made me laugh!

That all the leave is now used as I've left it too short notice I'll get the actual wording later - it's ridiculous

Can you take part days off, so, say work mornings only and leave earlier to use up your days leave as 'hours'?

They've refused this 😩

@mumof2wife use @Dumbles excellent letter.

Thanks all I'll be sending the email first thing tomorrow and shall keep you updated ☺️

Not necessarily. If the year runs to December and you leave it till December 23 to request it may well be that they can't accommodate your request. Otherwise people who want days off around Christmas would just force it by requesting late

What does he mean 'it's all gone'. How can it all be gone?

This. It’s all gone doesnt make any sense.

There is no available spaces
It's a call Centre
There is a maximum people allowed off at one time
It's all gone and used up by everyone

The manager isn't managing if staff are losing AL through no fault of their own. The process isn't conducive to employee wellbeing.

I agree and I've added this into my letter which has now been completed and finalized along with everyone's help and content
Letter is being sent tomorrow 9am and

Update

My letter has been sent to manager and HR 9am this morning - no reply yet.

The actual wording from manager when I emailed him asking for my leave

Hi,
Due to people leaving it too late it went pretty quickly, so no leave slots left unfortunately
This year we will send out updates to all staff to stop them from losing it
The policy is use or lose and it's clearly stated in policy and this has not changed
There are others in the same situation as you unfortunately and because it's now left too late, it's not possible to take your leave.

This is what I got word for word

My letter back has quoted the .gov and WTD and I've asked for my leave

Watch this space......

I mean, it's really hard to imagine what the fuck he thinks he means!

Clearly the minimum staff requirements are set too high if it means people can't take their leave.

So I've received an update from HR! And it's not good!

It is true that HR would not be able to have any input on this as holiday allocation is a fully operational matter and we don’t have a relevant understanding of operational demands to be able to advise pro or against holiday approvals which is why this sits with managers and I would encourage you to speak with your manager again to see if there is any flexibility at all – for example as you mentioned split your remaining balance into smaller portions of days between now and 31st March.

However I must say that if this is not operationally possible because if doing so manager would be putting operations at risk, then unfortunately there is nothing else that can be done. Paying back unused annual leave is not something we would do and the carry over of annual leave is only considered under exceptional circumstances where employee was unable to use their entitlement due to being out of work for large portions of the year (e.g. sabbatical, maternity leave, long term sick).
Just to clarify this would not be a ‘notice’ issue but capacity where there is no more room left for AL – likely because other employee have already booked out these times which is why we always recommend annual leave is planned and requested as much in advance as possible and as you acknowledged reminders were being made as February-March time of the year is always very congested due to employees trying to use up their remaining.

This is their response

Now what ? I feel really deflated
I've basically lost it
My manager has already said I can't as there are lots more people in same boat as me!

I feel like leaving this job but I know it's extreme
They don't seem to care about their staff

Phone in sick or take dependant’s leave. Fuck them, they’re shit anyway.

You need to call ACAS I think.

I'll give them a call tomorrow