Only one offered a settlement instead of redundancy - legal?

[Chillymoanday]

I've been approached with a settlement during the start of consultation but I am the only one who has been approached.

Its a decent figure, but for a few reasons, I'm not inclined to make this easy for them despite the settlement making it fairly clear to me that I'm the employee they want gone.

Can I use this later as proof the decision to make me redundant was already decided?

I think reading between the lines, you have been the victim of sexual assault or unwanted sexual advances in the workplace, made some noise about it and now they are using the redundancy as a way of getting rid of you? If so, I can understand why you don’t want to go quietly. Can you negotiate a higher settlement? I know you said it isn’t about the money but it would hit them where it hurts! Did you ask them in the meeting why you are the only one who has been offered the settlement? If not, ask for another meeting, take in someone with you and ask the questions. Are you in a union? If I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, apologies.

Why does this bother you? I did read the thread, she asked if ACAS are ever wrong, they shouldn't be - she should call back for clarification - Jeez

I've had sham redundancies forced on me a couple of times.
I'm expensive and when my contact book and perceived usefulness has been sucked dry I get told the company is re focusing.
Three years ago I was privy to a illegal process forced on a new mum. I objected and lost my settlement.
Last year when I worked for a bunch of crooks (two are in jail) I hired solicitors. Not worth it my love. However because they were money laundering and sadly later abusing female employees I dobbed them into to the police and HMRC. I got threatened with one ex army director shooting me. Tbh none of us got our redundancy because that tosser committed fraud and stole our wages.
Push your employer for a couple more months, smile and wave and get the hell out of there. Tell no one if you squel.
I'm a rare female employee at my level and these men hate powerful women. Let it go. Have Christmas off. I wouldn't offer to work any notice. Talk to your accountant re tax too.

It does involve SA. I didn't want to say in case it altered any replies

Hopefully that sheds light on why I dont want a penny of their money, I don't want to go to the police, there was a witness but I don't want to drag them into it. I just want to be a fucking pain in the arse as much as I can. Even if its just a little bit. Even if I stay, I'll then go at some point on MY terms unless I can get a transfer.

Tbh the redundancy is a coincidence, there is a genuine need for it. I just think they've found a way to kill 2 birds with 1 stone here.

Easy for who? This is a process handled by HR, who will be following the law and taking steps in line with established process. The only person likely to be stressed or have a hard time if you make it difficult by turning down the settlement is you. Firstly you then won’t get a settlement, secondly you will likely be made redundant and thirdly
you will then have the massive headache of launching a legal action by taking them to court for unfair dismissal, which you might not win. What is the point of all this if you are leaving anyway?

Why don't you want to seek legal advice at this stage? If you plan to take it to court you want legal advice asap. And if you don't want the hassle of that right now, you seriously won't want the hassle of it two years down the line when your every waking minute is taking up planning for tribunals.

Don't get mired in a legal battle about whether a company has behaved ethically towards you surrounding your dismissal/termination/redundancy. I know several people who have done this and it has stolen years of their life, most of their sanity and all of their joy. Take the money and go and have a better life elsewhere.

I don't know you but I am begging you to accept and move on, for your own sake. Un theory being the honest one who stands up and fights back may feel like David victorious against Goliath, but in reality you become a scapegoat. No one backs you. You get burnt out. I have seen friends' lives ruined by trying to bring big companies to justice for their nefarious ways of getting rid of employees.

I think this is good and wise advice.

Honest people up against immoral charlatans is never going to turn into a fair battle.

If you are in a union contact them

Just as an add. There is not statute of limitation on sexual assaults (hence Al Fayed).
If the assault was on you please get the hell out of there now.
Take the money, make sure it clears and do not sign a gagging clause. Although in the case of criminality it is null and void. I'm not a solicitor but I studied law and I'm C Suite which is code for dealing with shitty things all day long.

Why?

You want to leave.
The settlement is more than redundancy would be.

What are you trying to achieve?

It doesn't really shed any light on why you don't want their money, no. Presumably they pay you so you take that money OK.

I can understand not wanting to involve police in any SA etc matter, having tried to myself in the past. They are useless.

But honestly, this all sounds really toxic. You say you can easily get another job and the redundancy is genuine. Take the money, get another job, live a nice life away from these knobs.

If it's that bad that the police would be interested maybe think about if you should be protecting future workers. I know many will disagree but I think we all have a duty to speak up when wrong has been done and to protect other people.

Take the money. Go to the police. You might think the stress is worth fighting with them but what about the people who will have to take the brunt of your stress?

I was in a similar situation to you - my manager actually told me that they wanted to keep my colleague over me, as she was cheaper due to less experience. Rather than drag it out, I used that to negotiate more money.

It doesn't change my prior advice by much, but I would just reiterate that their current offer is just the opening gambit.

By mentioning a bit more of the history of it, you've just confirmed to me that they will definitely be willing to go much higher.

They are obviously acknowledging that they need to lose one person from your team and they want that to be you for "political" reasons. They will not want to have to use a redundancy route to get rid of someone else, so you may find that their pockets are very deep on this one...

The poster below me originally said that, as HR, they usually offer 1/3rd of what they're actually willing to pay, as a guideline.

You can always counteract with, say, 5 times what they're offering, then negotiate to a middle point.

What you then do with that money is up to you. If you get a new job quickly, then have a decent holiday or stick it in a pension, or give it to a charity that helps people that have suffered SA.

On that last point, I hope you're OK, given what has brought you to this point.

@Chillymoanday what is the outcome that you want?

You don't want their money.
You don't want to go to the police, but suggest it is potentially a criminal matter.

If you are made redundant, but then want to pursue it because you feel it was a pre-decided matter, what would be the result you want from that? Are you going to take it to tribunal? - what would a desirable outcome be for you there?

If you aren't made redundant, would you still want to work for them (given the police matter you don't want to take to the police)?

It seems like you're asking questions about whether you could take things further about the redundancy potentially being pre-decided, but there isn't an endpoint you want to get to as a result.

I don't mean this unkindly but quite often people think they are performing better at work than they are.
I've known lots of peopld genuinely think they are really strong and definitely would score more highly than colleagues, but actually management see weaknesses the individual isnt aware of?

Oh, and as another PP has mentioned, you should be able to get them to agree to pay for a solicitor to act on your behalf in reviewing the terms of a compromise/settlement agreement.

I would highly recommend it.

Totally agree. If the settlement/redundancy thing hadn’t come along were you actually planning on staying? Surely not

this is a chance to leave AND take as much of their stuff as you’re likely to get. So do that fgs!

But what would you achieve from legal action? A payout…which is what is being offered to you now.

I'm not a nightmare, or i wasnt.

You’re hardly the most objective on that particular point

I honestly don’t see the problem 🤷‍♀️

I'm going to leave the thread now. I keep being asked what I want when I've been pretty clear and I don't think its helpful anymore, to anyone.

I'm going to get proper legal advice and will take it from there I guess.

Thank you again everyone for the advice. It's helped me decide to get further advice which I didn't know I'd need or want until this thread, so thank you very much again all ❤️

Now that I have seen it is to do with SA. Take it from someone who knows, justice goes a really long way towards the victim recovering. If you stay quiet when you could potentially help, then I think that would be reprehensible. I'm sure you won't care about my opinion but I had to respond.

This was my thinking, thinking the outcome is pre-determined and no other settlements will be offered is a huge assumption at this early stage.

I work in the public sector so been part of endless restructures and redundancy processes, both as a manager and as someone at risk. Redundancy processes are time consuming and bad for staff morale which is why employers want to avoid them.

You start with your optimal outcome - we get rid of X who is difficult/incompetent with minimal stress (ie a settlement). If you can’t swing that, you go for your next preferred outcome - we get rid of Y who is less difficult/incompetent but still with minimal stress (ie a settlement), and so on, working through the list of options less painful than a redundancy process.

You quietly taking the settlement might be their optimal outcome but it’s rare for it to be their only one. If someone else takes the settlement, how will you feel still being there?

I know you may have gone now, but as someone who has been through unfair dismissal with a very toxic firm who clearly wanted me out, I would listen to those saying just push as high as you can, take the money and run. And seriously consider whether not reporting SA to the police is right for your recovery and to safeguard any future victims.