Only one offered a settlement instead of redundancy - legal?

[Chillymoanday]

I've been approached with a settlement during the start of consultation but I am the only one who has been approached.

Its a decent figure, but for a few reasons, I'm not inclined to make this easy for them despite the settlement making it fairly clear to me that I'm the employee they want gone.

Can I use this later as proof the decision to make me redundant was already decided?

She should make sure that it is given AS a redundancy payment as part of the negotiation. Good point!

You're missing an important point.

So what if you're redundancy was pre determined? A tribunal will want to know what loss have you suffered as a result of this action?

We do not have "punitive" damages in the UK. An industrial tribunal will make an award to compensate for actual damages that you have suffered. Also ... the amount a tribunal can award is limited. The settlement offer may well be a lot more generous than any award an industrial tribunal is likely to make and, at the end of the day, the tribunal may not agree with you. Also ... don't underestimate how stressful tribunals etc are. Before it can even go ahead you have to have exhausted all internal complaints procedures. This means that you need to tell your employer your grievance and give them a chance to put it right. Have you done this??

I would take the money....

Not sure of the difference and legal implications. Maybe call free employment advice?

I know redundancy is free of tax not sure about settlement

This would only work to your advantage of for example you are the only woman or mother or black or disabled that has been given a settlement. In that case you MAY have a discrimination case or you could use it to get an even larger settlement.

if not, then they’ll make you redundant anyway and you’ll be left with less money and just a dates reference.

the temptation to make it hard for them is understandable, but life is for living and not for this. Choose your battles wisely.

Have they any grounds for dismissing you, OP? Think carefully about this. A good HR department with a decent lawyer can usually find a way of dismissing someone if that someone won't go quietly — which is what you've been encouraged to do. They've made you an offer. I'd advise bargaining over it and getting it increased (on the basis that you're going to find it very difficult to get a new job at this time of year/ in the current climate). Then book yourself a holiday as a reward and start job-hunting in the new year.

I worked for an organisation where the star employee, the man on whom the company's success was built, was known to have a penchant for younger female members of staff. Groping, entering the ladies loos, propositioning... Over the years several of those women left, some with a voluntary settlement and some, having recruited a solicitor and with a potential police complaint, left with sums large enough to buy a flat in a nice part of London.

Accept the settlement, put whatever's happened to you and move on to a new and better situation or get serious, lawyer-up and take your revenge by extracting a large amount of cash from the company. Wittering on about some mysterious crime and looking for revenge, but refusing to get legal advice or report a crime makes you look a bit unhinged, frankly.

There is a police matter involved but I don't want to go to them. So I haven't and I won't.
No idea where you work but in my field knowing about a crime and not reporting to relevant person or Police is gross misconduct. (Welby is a recent example)

In real life, you will not be working for this company in 6 months.
Go for maximum payout and minimum damage to your reputation. I am making the assumption that you wish to be employed again by someone at some time.

There's a lot of confusion (understandably I think) from people about what the OP wants from this. I don't think I am putting words into her mouth - she'll correct me if I do, I am sure - but if we lay this bare, she wants revenge on her employer for some unspecified thing or things. That's it. Revenge. She wants them to feel as bad as she does. She wants them to suffer. She wants to hurt them.

And she will get not one of those things. Ever.

There will be plenty of people on this thread and elsewhere who have felt like that. It's perfectly underatndable. It's also a waste of time, effort and energy. The only person damaged by revenge is yourself. You don't feel better after you get it. It isn't going to change whatever it is that you are stewing about. If anything it will make you as bad as them. And it doesn't free you from them. You are potentially starting a war where there is a minor skirmish.

No it isn’t rude at all. Negroany was supercilious and had completely misunderstood the police part.

You will sign a settlement agreement waiving your legal claims. You need to take proper advice.

I am the only woman in the team but tbh I don't think thats the reason they want me out, although its connected. but like I say I don't want to go there, I just wanted to give them whatever headache I could for my own satisfaction. Even just a tiny one.

I posted in another forum and got about 50/50 responses so am just going to hang on for legal advice as am annoying myself now 😔 my home insurance does have it.

Thanks again for all the replies.

Realistically speaking it’s almost always a predetermined decision (unless they need to fire a great number of people). It’s the people whose performance is the worst, who don’t fit in with the team etc. It’s quite easy to predict even if you’re not part of the management.

We had a redundancy process in my workplace and we were told they’d have to make two people redundant. From day one I said it would be Jim and Susan (not their actual names) and I was right. It was obvious just by working with them and hearing others speak about them that they weren’t as competent/didn’t fit in with the team. I actually think that the whole process was the bosses wanting to get rid of them and covering their backs legally, but it would be impossible to prove.

Unless you’ve been discriminated against because of a protected characteristic, take the settlement.

Appreciate that thank you, it genuinely did make me laugh a bit, in the circumstances 😄

I'd just counter offer, is it a compromise agreement or redundancy?

two questions. If you don't go to the police, will the undisclosed matter injure others or has it injured others? and can you afford to never work in your industry again?

legally you won’t be able to use the settlement - it’ll be part of a without prejudice conversation. Some other may have got them but know that they shouldn’t be disclosing.

press pause on the consultation process and negotiate on your settlement. Its much better to be able to control the narrative on why you’ve left, plus be able to predetermine your reference letter than leave yourself open to the redundancy outcome.

If it's a compromise agreement they should pay £500 towards your legal fees. Also find a good employment solicitor, good luck.

Not necessarily as it may be protected communications under s111A employment rights act making it inadmissible in ET proceedings for unfair dismissal.

But seriously why bother. If you don’t take it they’ll probably make you redundant anyway. For whatever reason they’ve decided someone is going and it’s you. It’s happened to me before too when my last work needed to lose someone during the pandemic. Once you know they don’t want you there why would you bother fighting it? There’s literally no point.

@Chillymoanday I’ve been ‘made redundant’ when my post wasn’t redundant. They specifically wanted to get rid of me because I was too expensive and because I was highly experienced and prepared to challenge decisions that I thought were wrong. I was offered a settlement that was higher than a redundancy payment would be — my solicitor chuckled and said they knew they were doing the wrong thing, but advised me to take the money and run. I didn’t want to continue working for them after the way they’d behaved and, in any case, if they wanted rid of me, they were going to get rid of me by fair means or foul. As it was I got a decent chunk of money, wrote my own reference, and had an awesome leaving party during which the two people who most wanted me out had to make long speeches praising me. Most satisfying.

Are you a member of a union? If not I suggest you pay the £15 to join unite and get advice from them. Often their advice isn’t great but it can scare your employer and may get your settlement offer up. Delay things by saying you don’t want to discuss anything unless a union rep is there

i actually think your gut instinct is right and they know you will come out well in the scoring but they don’t want to keep you

you need to ask yourself whether you want to work there. If you managed to prove you score highly so shouldn’t go - would you want to stay?

I suspect not so easier to take the settlement. Get the union and a lawyer involved to maximise your deal. Hope it works out

I'd hope not but can't guarantee it.

it wouldn't affect me working in the industry again I can very easily find other work, and I know that makes me extremely lucky.

my take (and its not about your question) is that if the police matter could injure others if you don't speak and speaking would prevent this (or the chances are it would prevent it) Then regardless of the other issues, I would have to speak.

Appreciate that, but i believe it's not something I'm responsible for preventing happening in the future, it's their issue.

Op, it sounds like you might have been sexually assaulted by a boss / someone at the company. And it's being covered up or minimised, and they want you out.

It's the way you say there's a police matter at the heart of this, that it's linked to you being a woman, and that you hope the criminal nature of things wouldn't affects others but you can't be sure.

If that's true, I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how much you want them / the company to suffer for this.

And actually, if this is true or vaguely true, I also recommend you take the money (though get it increased first) and run. I agree the company won't really suffer through anything you can do, but I also think the more you invest emotionally (let alone financially) in any of this, the more it's poisoning you and your mental health.

(and more apologies if all of this is way off base).

nevertheless

What if for what ever reason they find a legitimate reason to let you go and you get nothing ? Take the money life's too short