Wfh - they can dictate when surely?

[ahemfem]

I have a manger who I think has been a bit too forgiving of things and now has put their foot down.

They've said right, you're meant to come in the office 50% of the time and you aren't. (To everyone) so now they've said I want you all in on Monday and Friday and pick one other day a fortnight that you want to come in. I think that's really fair but there's other people kicking RIGHT OFF and complaining. Am I right in thinking that even if the policy just says 50% of time in the office the manager is still able to dictate when that is? They've given a month's notice too which seems more than fair.

Some People who have had to go back in the office are leaving their dogs 8+ hours a day ime. One person I know has blamed their employer for their dog urinating in their house because they have to leave them so long

All of this but not exclusive to people working in education , health care professionals can’t WFH ever they have patients in person to attend to . Same for retail workers etc. I’m getting fed up of this entitled “ WFH “ brigade . Unless your contract stipulates it then just organise your life commitments like everyone else does. Eventually most of these WFH exclusive jobs will be possibly deployed off shore .

😂😂

if you are supposed to be at work (whether at home or the office) you should have formal childcare in place.

Well yes, but it's not just people who take the piss who might need to arrange childcare.

My DH wfh full time with no sign of going back into the office, but if he did, we'd need time to arrange some childcare. Not because he's taking the piss and looking after DD while he's meant to be working, but because at the moment he can take DD to school and be back home working by 8:40. If he was going back into the office, we'd need time to arrange some sort of before school childcare because he'd need to leave for work before school drop off.
I know that's not his employer's problem, but it's just a fact that we would need time to do that. I've no idea how long it might take to arrange because it's not something we've ever needed to look in to.

I imagine that's the issue for a lot of people - it's the childcare during the commuting time that needs to be arranged, not the actual working time.
And of course, some people will be taking the piss and looking after small children while they're supposed to be working.

I think the childcare issue is partly because people may have to arrange after school club on days they don't at the moment.

This, exactly.

Plus things like a couple sharing a car and it being workable because of not both needing to be in the office on the same day.

It is the 'moving the goalposts'.

It will depend on the job, of course, and what was said when people signed up to work for them.

It also depends on what the point of the change is. If there is a business reason for everyone to be in - collaboration, team meetings, training, etc - then fair enough. I would not be impressed if they insisted I had to stop wfh because other members of staff were taking the mick or because the manager wasn't able to manage those taking the mick.

Fixed days are a great idea as it ensures that office days are worth it and can be used for booking whole team activities, workshops etc.

That’s fine but it’s not the same as primary age children who you ‘nip out’ to pick up at 3 and are then supervising until 5.30. An expectation has arisen that after school club isn’t necessary for wfh parents, along with taking the time to do the pick up. It might be ok in some jobs but I’ve certainly noticed a deterioration in some services since COVID and people refusing to go back to the office. I’m definitely sick of barking dogs and crying children in the background on business calls and given that the rest of the business is online and working all afternoon I can’t accommodate scheduling meetings around someone’s school run every day. When this stuff gets out of hand is when employers start wanting people back in the office,

It makes little sense to say that people who can work from home shouldn’t because there’s people who can’t.

Whether or not you should, should be based on ability and the suitability of your role. Not whether someone else who can’t will feel slighted against because you’re saving fuel and they aren’t, what would you say if everyone went back in and it cost you an extra 20mins sat in traffic each day? Would you accept that as a consequence of levelling off the playing field.

I do agree with that. Mine are in childcare whilst I work and I get frustrated that some people try and juggle the two. If I can’t get childcare I can’t work.

my company offer the choice: fully remote (with a few compulsory onsite days a year - max 3 i think) fully office, or anything in between. It is highly appreciated by all of us. We don't have enough desks for everyone anyway, never had.

But given how much commuting I've done in the past, how many hours I've wasted in traffic or for cancelled trains, i will choose when to go in from now on, and wouldn't be working anywhere that dictates when i must be in the offie.

I am aware I'm very lucky, and that our team are hugely and highly motivated.

I WFH as a reasonable adjustment. Colleagues are a mix of office/WFH
Nobody goes in on a Friday or Saturday usually unless they want to, some people prefer the office, some home

But it's not a water cooler chat/networking type job as it's a call centre so I can go a whole shift without speaking to a colleague anyway!

as for "yes you can see your entire team" etc - if my team all need to be in the office, we arrange it like that. Like grown-ups who take their jobs seriously.
Our hybrid meetings work because we have a cameras on policy and good tech in the office.

It entirely depends on the type of work you do, and people whining that teachers and chefs have to be present are missing the point: we know that WFH can work, and if people want to do that, good on them. And if it doesn't work for the company? then they have people in the office. It's not actually rocket science.

It entirely depends on the type of work you do, and people whining that teachers and chefs have to be present are missing the point

I agree. It's like whining that teachers get school holidays off (I know some people do whine about this, but those people are unreasonable). Different jobs have different benefits and drawbacks.
And what some people consider a benefit, others would consider a drawback anyway eg some people would love 100% remote, others would hate it and actively avoid a role like that.

It does depend on the job. Mine involves a lot of thinking which I find easier when doing something else - so on the commute, emptying dishwasher, putting a wash on etc

if I had a job that necessitated being in front of my computer all day or on calls i wouldn’t like wfh so much

if I could teleport to work I would go every day - it is the discomfort of the commute that puts me off

I'd be quite happy if Monday and Friday were mandated, travel is easier, lunch places are quieter. Fridays are a throughly pleasant day to be in the office.

So what if people are organising their days around school runs, or other caring responsibilities? As long at the work and hours are done, it does not matter.

Ineffective managers need to step up or step back down, if they cannot performance manage the piss takers - they will continue to take the piss in the office, just as they had always done.

People need to move away from the old fashioned male ways of working (woman working part time around their hours, to do the child care, and putting their careers second, so the man could put his career first) and start embracing the future - work that works women, for people with caring responsibilities and for people with disabilities.

It's not Wednesday, but it's still a good day to smash the patriarchy.

I’m amazed there are offices where there are enough desks for everyone who have previously been working hybridly or from home - most places I know have reduced office space and desks to save money.

Why was your manager not managing the 50% rule more effectively before now?

The problem is that it’s predominantly my female colleagues that are doing the childcare and disappearing for a couple of hours in the afternoon. So they miss calls and end up handing work over to others or miss out on learning opportunities

working set hours as a team means we can collaborate - in person or online. When one person chooses to do those hours outside the working day it makes everyone else’s life difficult

When we brought staff back to the office a few people left
I had predicted who they would be,and they were no loss
We pay a bit over the odds and have good staff retention and no issues with recruitment
Productivity rose significantly

If you don't like the terms of your employment look for a new job

There are lots of hours in the day - ever thought of collaborating at those times the females are not doing the school runs? Interesting that your male colleagues are not doing the school runs.
Do you see the problem - it's all about conforming to the structures that have made it easy for men to get ahead, and difficult for women. This is part of the reason we have an issue with the gender pay gap. It's why some many children are living in poverty. Things cannot go back to how they were.

I work my hours across 4 days with predominantly school hours - my dairy is open. I actually find it better doing 4 short days than 3 long days for clients. Tbh it doesn’t cause me any issues whatsoever. People know when I’m available and schedule meetings accordingly.

Funnily enough not everyone I work with has kids and some of those who do have childcare. I don’t know why my female colleagues all have to do the school run and their partners don’t do any.

also, it’s very hard to fit all our calls into 11-2.30

id much prefer they enforced core hours - say 10-4 - so there’s still some flexibility but we are all in at the same time for a good chunk of the day

They didn’t pick Friday and Monday at random. Your colleagues have been taking the piss. Calls not being answered. Email traffic falling of a cliff. Teams registering as dormant.

It depends on the job though. Employers should be flexible enough to recognise that