Wfh - they can dictate when surely?

[ahemfem]

I have a manger who I think has been a bit too forgiving of things and now has put their foot down.

They've said right, you're meant to come in the office 50% of the time and you aren't. (To everyone) so now they've said I want you all in on Monday and Friday and pick one other day a fortnight that you want to come in. I think that's really fair but there's other people kicking RIGHT OFF and complaining. Am I right in thinking that even if the policy just says 50% of time in the office the manager is still able to dictate when that is? They've given a month's notice too which seems more than fair.

It sounds as though the manager knows that some people are taking the piss, and rather than address that with those individuals, is making everyone work Mondays and Fridays.

In a lot is cases companies have closed offices since Covid meaning people have longer, more difficult commutes.

Only in low skill jobs with lots of possible replacements.

In my sector people just aren't expendable, unless they are genuinely useless.

I'd rather be handing over to someone who is WFH than to no one!

Yes, classic shit manager - let the small number of CFs off the hook, make the hard workers' lives worse. Foolish manager.

It’s like bingo. This old chestnut.

If they could replace me with someone from India believe me they would havd whether in the office or not. But it really really isn’t that simple.

They’re not totally UR but then they can’t expect people not to kick up either. I took a job and was told I’d need to go in every 6 weeks. I accepted the job on that basis, it wasn’t practical for me to go in more often. Since Covid I’ve had two kids and found home-working enables me to work around my family. Then they changed their policy and I was going in twice a week. It didn’t work for me, so I quit and found a new 100% remote role with no difficulty whatsoever. My industry is now largely home working.

My point, I suppose, is you can’t expect people not to arrange their lives around a long standing arrangement. So they have every right to object and ultimately, leave. Management have to decide what’s more important - imposing Monday and Friday office working or retaining their staff and assessing each person on a case by case basis.

And add in - in jobs that are not customer facing and people aren’t paranoid about scams.

@bergamotorange but if those who are CF have children etc., if they're made to come in more often they risk a discrimination claim.

If my only option was 100% office working I’d quit my job and they’d lose my skillset, there’s a shortage of people with my qualifications and skills so employers accept it because the alternative is having no staff and outsourcing which would be a huge expense to them. Don’t assume everyone is totally disposable - employees are an asset to employers.

@LostOnTheWayToManderley you asked what people did before COVID about the Friday lunchtime end for school and the answer is work part time. Mostly women. Most families had one worker part time when the children are 4-10/11 and before wfh was more widely available that person (almost always the mum) would stay part time until their teens were self sufficient.
That small bit of flexibility to allow wfh on a Friday puts loads of skilled women back into the full time workforce and for those on lower wages that probably lifts the family out of in-work benefits.

You beat me to it - exactly the point I was making. My boss said more office working, I said no and walked out to 30% more pay elsewhere. My prev post is also filled by someone getting paid more than I was..!

Are you the manager OP?

50% is way too much and just presenteeism, no wonder people are annoyed. We’re supposed to be in once a week but I average once a month because I just can’t be arsed and get more done at home anyway.

Yeah, managers can technically do what they like - but so can employees and vote with their feet.

Thanks. Yes, understood. And this is one of the missed opportunities I mentioned on another post. But I agree with what a PP said - the pre-Covid business world was designed by and for men, and we’re heading back there.

Usually people argue that coming into the office is pointless if people are on calls etc all day, I suspect choosing days (the ones where there's more likely to be issues) checks a few boxes at once if the others in the team are all in. The number of companies wanting people back at least a few days a week keeps increasing, people can of course leave if they're not happy but as more and more expect it there's less options.

It's not "presenteeism" to ask your workers to work and not use the workday to do childcare etc.

If you don't work from home, expect to be called into the office.

@bravefox I’m working on this exact proposal. We struggle to recruit, the office is empty- it’s hard to justify keeping the function
in the UK when we can outsource to India for a fraction of the cost.

People in our office don’t like coming in on Mondays and Fridays, the latter being the real challenge. The problem is, there aren’t enough desks for everyone to come in on Wednesday and we need people in the office five days a week for business continuity reasons. Personally I like set days so I can arrange childcare/DH WFH around it.

Like the PP, I hate the block booking out of every afternoon claiming they’re on emails. That’s not doing your full job in my role and it means that we don’t deliver to clients on time.

I don’t use my working day for childcare. But by not commuting I save 2 hours a day that I can do work in. Whilst we’re busy it makes zero sense for me to spend time driving that I could be bringing money in.

Personally I like set days so I can arrange childcare/DH WFH around it.

I agree it's easier for planning- it's not unreasonable with set days to say you'll only be at in person meetings etc if they fall on those days, without them could be all over the place.

It's not good to be doing extra work above your hours though, people with shorter commutes will no doubt feel obliged to also and end up doing longer than they would in the office.

I think there's a big difference between some types of wfh.
Some people upthread are irreplaceable and can work top jobs 100% remotely. Others, not so much. We had a thread on here with various women combining wfh with childcare. One woman said she could combine taking clients' calls with changing her baby's nappies; another who could spend an hour at the gym during the working day, plus do the school run and fit it all in. So, it obviously depends.

Being in the house with a 12-14 year old for the last couple of hours of the day is not “childcare”. Neither is walking a primary school child to school at 8 and being at your home desk for 9 and being able to pick them up from after school club at 6. But these are the things that allow family and work to coexist in a healthy way and families to have two full time working parents.

If you are doing childcare and wfh at the same time you are not doing either well and it is a disservice to both your kids and your employer

I think the problem is the CFs can make everyone’s life difficult. This example is pre covid but I shared an office with someone who would stop work half an hour before her lunch break and eat her sandwiches. She did this everyday, when the manager asked her to stop she complained it wasn’t fair and she was being bullied because the manager hadn’t said anything to other colleagues who had on occasion eaten a sandwich while still working. We ended up being forbidden to eat sandwiches at our desk during work hours.

@SunQueen24 personally I just don't see the fuss.

You're being asked to work, if you don't like it you can always leave.