Employee's mess of sick/holiday/leaving

[amiscrewedover]

One of my employees handed in his notice, which is fine - he wasn't really picking up the job after being with us six months.

However now he's been signed off work by a doctor on the basis of mental health reasons, so effectively he doesn't have to come in for his notice period, which now looks as follows:

1 week in work (completed)
2 weeks mental health sick note
1 week holiday.

So no more time in work, no handover etc.

He has never been off before and has no history with mental health issues, or any health issues, nor anything going on personally. We know his family and friends very well, it's a small town, and no problems have happened at work or with any colleagues - he's basically just decided he doesn't want to work his notice period and from what we've been told on the grapevine is planning to use the two weeks to apply for jobs and attend interviews.

Is there anything we can do here or are we just stuck paying full salary for the month? We're a small business so it's a lot of money to us, especially for nothing.

(I'm a bit annoyed a doctor would write a note for mental health issues that have never existed before, can apparently be cured in two weeks but are also serious enough to be off work, and happen to be just before a holiday and end of notice period. There is no follow up appointment scheduled with the doctor with more actions/to see how he's getting on etc. so obviously nothing serious and no treatment given, planned or suggested. But trying to be professional about it and do the right thing).

Thanks.

The working environment may have played a part in his mental health issues…. you want him gone from the tone of your posts but seem to be being overly vindictive and nasty towards this person…give your head a wobble.

Why are asking his family and friends about his mental health and why do you think they would tell you if he had shared anything with them? It does really sound like you are trying to call him out on some sort of fake mental illness so that you don't have to accept that he's off sick. I wouldn't want to work for somebody like that either.

Did you have a probation period - then its only 1 weeks notice, check what notice is required under the law and accept only that.. But honestly the cost of getting rid is cheaper than going through a load of processes and reviews to oust him. I would take the hit and let him go its just eating your time dealing. Why would you want him to do hand over if he is crap anyway

I wouldn’t say this is typical. The places I’ve worked you accrue rights to more paid sick leave the longer you are there. So first six months for example it’s a up to week on full pay, after that it goes up every six months.

I’ve worked in public and private sector, smaller (but not family) and larger companies.

HR person here.

It's not unusual for someone who is unwell or underperforming (or both) to hand their notice in.

And it is probably for the best from a business perspective- they are not happy in role, not performing the job to the required standard or too ill to do the job.

In terms of what can you do? Absolutely nothing-

He is entitled to his contractual notice period
He is entitled to report sick (needs to provide a fit note from day 8 as he has done) and to receive the sick pay he is entitled to under the terms of his contract
He is entitled to request annual leave that is owing to him.

You will get nowhere challenging the genuineness of a fit note as an employment tribunal willl take the view that a GP is better qualified than yourself to assess a persons health, provide advice and fit notes.

My point was that trying to drag someone with a sick note in when the working relationship isn’t working is likely to cost the business more than it stands to gain (through wasted time, or even employment tribunals). It’s rubbish, it’s not a good way to behave, but the safest route for the business is to let him leave and learn about how to handle sick pay during probation/notice from this.

This

your post comes across as v unreasonable you are accusing the doctor too 😳a sweeping assumption …you have no real idea what state the person is in…

I pity the poor sod who takes the job next ….hopefully word will get round if it’s a small town! Dreadful boss you are!

You can choose to have him off for two weeks and then work for a week and then pay for holiday leave if he hasn’t booked it in time..

in future your company needs to pay SSPonky for the first 6 months and sack people who are not performing.

If this post is anything to go by, he's had a lucky escape.

We paid an independent local HR consultant to update our employee handbook and terms/conditions of employment a few years ago, OP. It cost around £700 + VAT but was well spent in terms of updating them especially in regards to situations like this. ACAS are as much help as a wet paper bag when it comes to employers, and the small business federations just send you to Croner who charge an absolute fortune.

You can’t do anything. Fine if he is playing the system but the job market isn’t super great in lots of sectors. So he may well get his comeuppance and live to regret the way he’s played this

I believe they can:

Challenge the Medical Note: The employer can request further clarification from the employee regarding their medical certificate if there are concerns about its legitimacy. Employers can seek confirmation from the doctor or request an independent medical assessment if there is a genuine suspicion of fraud. However, this must be done carefully and within legal boundaries to avoid discrimination claims.

Monitoring the Employee’s Activities: If it is known that the employee is attending job interviews or engaging in activities inconsistent with their medical condition, this could be a breach of the implied duty of trust and confidence. The employer would need evidence to prove this, which may require a private investigation or other forms of legitimate evidence collection.

Payment Obligations

Statutory Sick Pay (SSP): If the employee is entitled to SSP rather than full salary during sick leave, the employer may reduce the employee’s pay to the statutory minimum. This could be a significant cost-saving if the employer has no contractual obligation to pay full salary during sick leave.

Holiday Pay: The employer is legally obliged to pay for any unused holiday leave. This is non-negotiable under UK law. However, the employer could refuse the holiday request, which would require paying for those days but ensure the employee does not benefit from extra time off before leaving.

Does he get paid co sick pay when off sick? If it’s SSP he’ll only get that for his 2 weeks sick surely.

He’s probably either a lazy bastard or a piss taker but if he’s told his dr he’s too unwell/stressed to go to work not much the dr can do is there:

'Challenging the Medical Note' and 'Monitoring the Employee’s Activities' seem like pretty extreme steps to go to against someone who's leaving the job anyway.

I also wouldn't want to think that my employer had started a big old post on MN too, to discuss my employment and MH issues. Highly unprofessional.

@GreenBeret01 Your suggestions are absurd in the circumstances. The OP has an employee that she admits isn't performing well and instead of having to manage his performance, and possibly go through the whole process of managing him out of the door, they just need to pay 2 weeks' sick pay because he's resigned. He's clearly unhappy in the job.

The OP should be breathing a sigh of relief, not trying to find ways to make his exit harder. Mostly though, I'm relieved that the guy is getting away from this toxic soup of an employer.

How does the workplace sound toxic? He sounds like a useless dick.

why does the employer seem toxic , when hes the one taking the pickle

An employer who's annoyed that a GP would sign someone off for a fortnight seems pretty toxic to me.

Posting this..."There is no follow up appointment scheduled with the doctor with more actions/to see how he's getting on etc. so obviously nothing serious and no treatment given, planned or suggested." when you're not medically qualified seems pretty toxic to me. It's not for the OP to decide on the seriousness of his mental health condition.

And being annoyed about paying him for a month, when he's actually worked a week of it and another week is his leave entitlement, seems pretty toxic to me. If the employer provides full sick pay from day 1 in their contracts, that's on them.

The employer is getting off pretty lightly, really... just let him go.

Would you say that if it was a female employee who also does all the school runs and childcare and works part time but struggled to pick up the job?

I think you’ve overstepped and made lots of unfounded assumptions, which are totally inappropriate.

This is bull. “Sick notes” don’t include that kind of detail.

yep - the whole thing is awful and OP and the company just need to suck it up and find a replacement.

And all the guesswork and overstepping has to stop, OP. Blimey, if i worked with/for you I'd seriously be reconsidering.

You think that because it is a small town you would know what problems he has 🙄 Plus if he only works a few hours and he's got 1 weeks leave how much sick pay is he actually receiving?

People wait way longer than 2 weeks for treatment, surely people in your small town could confirm that. 🤔

Oh I agree the sick pay situation is on them and they should be glad such a shit employee is leaving rather than expending any more energy on him!