Employee's mess of sick/holiday/leaving

[amiscrewedover]

One of my employees handed in his notice, which is fine - he wasn't really picking up the job after being with us six months.

However now he's been signed off work by a doctor on the basis of mental health reasons, so effectively he doesn't have to come in for his notice period, which now looks as follows:

1 week in work (completed)
2 weeks mental health sick note
1 week holiday.

So no more time in work, no handover etc.

He has never been off before and has no history with mental health issues, or any health issues, nor anything going on personally. We know his family and friends very well, it's a small town, and no problems have happened at work or with any colleagues - he's basically just decided he doesn't want to work his notice period and from what we've been told on the grapevine is planning to use the two weeks to apply for jobs and attend interviews.

Is there anything we can do here or are we just stuck paying full salary for the month? We're a small business so it's a lot of money to us, especially for nothing.

(I'm a bit annoyed a doctor would write a note for mental health issues that have never existed before, can apparently be cured in two weeks but are also serious enough to be off work, and happen to be just before a holiday and end of notice period. There is no follow up appointment scheduled with the doctor with more actions/to see how he's getting on etc. so obviously nothing serious and no treatment given, planned or suggested. But trying to be professional about it and do the right thing).

Thanks.

Its very possible that his mental health is negatively affected by the stress of trying to do a job he is not picking up. So that as soon as his notice period is worked, his stress will alleviate. Thats a fair position.

That’s absolutely untrue. I was off for mental health issue nearly a year last year due to severely stressed at work and none of my sick note contained such information.

and yes people can struggle with their mental health anytime even the one without mental health history.

You sound like my previous toxic manager who thought they know better than Occupational Health professionals & Mental health nurse.

How do you know he doesn’t have mental health issues? He may have MH issues that he’s never discussed with anyone. There are a lot of suicides happen where people seemed ok and not suffering with any issues to people on the outside. You don’t know how someone feels internally. Yes it’s annoying for you, there is not much you can do about it but doctors generally don’t give out sick notes without good reason. The only person who will know if he has a ‘history’ of mental health issues is his GP.

How the hell do you know what was discussed with the doctor!

I think you are massively overstepping you’ve no idea what goes on behind closed doors…he could very well have MH issues.

poor guy I feel for him you come across as unreasonable and massively over stepping the mark! I bet he’s glad to be out of the workplace

I'm actually appalled at your post …you sound unreasonable and like you are bordering on hounding him…MH issues take months to get treatment …

MH issues can well be why he wants to leave

In the event that you are right and he isn’t genuine… getting him back in is also likely to “cost” more than you gain in terms of work, especially as he hasn’t really picked it up, only does a few hours a week and will be gone before any significant interventions can happen.

Be glad that it’s a short term cost and let him leave on his terms. Much easier than any long running dispute/tribunal.

No, I wouldn't. Rest and time away from the job is a perfectly adequate treatment for two weeks off for mental health. If someone had the flu or COVID, are you expecting a full work up and treatment plan? Fit notes do not contain the level of detail you are claiming.

You are far too involved. How his family manages is none of your business. You need to step back. Cut your losses.

Unfortunately you can't diagnose mental health issues by looking at someone and knowing their family.

Unless of course you have some sort of super skill in which case you should be working in the NHS and helping with the mental health services backlog.

Oh my you sound awful you seem to have your nose in to all his business …back off he should be suing you for harassing him!

He is well rid of working for you shocking behaviour on your part …

Probably was suffering stress in his job with you, because he was struggling trying to learn it. For whatever reason. If Dr doesn't need to see him again ( and not sure how you know this) then it probably DOES point to him really struggling mentally with the job, which he has told the dr will resolve once he doesn't have to go to work any more. Two weeks is kind of standard though for a first mental health time off work

I can understand why you would be frustrated however lots of illness are invisible.
Maybe his MH has prevented him picking up the job or the job has caused MH issues for him.
Either way the path is clear for you all to get a fresh start.

Thankful I don't work with you!

What's your policy on sick pay? I usually put a clause in mine that it's SSP only during notice period so no full sick pay. Also, have they accrued enough holiday to take 2 weeks paid holiday? If not you don't need to pay it and it can be unpaid leave.

Honestly, this. Just let the poor guy go and start again. Making him continue to fail for a couple of weeks is pointless both for you and damaging to him.

I'm surprised you didn't see this coming.

A relatively new employee, who hasn't been performing and doesn't like his job. Him leaving what inevitable whether instigated by you or him.

After 6 month's, he's not going to have any loyalty, he just wants out.

He may be suck or he may not but you can't be surprised at how this ended.

People would say I’m fine too. I’m actually currently dealing with a breakdown and suicidal feelings.

It’s normal to issue a sick note for 2 weeks.

You think it’s possible to get mental health treatment on the NHS within 2 weeks?????!!!!!!!!!

Small business owner here. We never pay anything other than SSP during probation, and even past that it's at our discretion. I would get your terms and conditions amended asap - full pay in a case like this where you suspect the sicknote has been fraudulently obtained but can't do anything is adding insult to injury.

It's not just the sick pay, it's the NI, and holiday contribution accrued while someone is off sick. I'd love to know how many posters above would happily pay this out of their own pockets like small business owners have to!

You could be part of the reason he has put a sick note in

Why on earth are you bothered? Just go and enjoy your weekend and focus on hiring his replacement if you insist on thinking about work on a Friday evening

I have sympathy regarding the sick note, but perhaps the training issues were due to medication he's been taking for his mental health?

I used to work with somebody that was officially 'disabled' due to their mental health. They were on very strong medication and it was like Groundhog Day in terms of training. They just couldn't commit anything to memory.

If you can't handle giving your workers even the basic rights afforded them by law then your business model is duff.

Honestly - you should just write this off. He has a sick note, he is therefore covered (whether you agree with it or not). If you dispute this you won't win, simple as that. So, just accept you won't see him again and recruit. Don't spent any more time on it, just fix the situation and move on.

I had work related stress (due directly to being given a huge job which the previous manager of had left with no handover notes at all and everyone just said "oh you'll figure it out" - I pleaded and pleaded for support but everyone just kept passing the buck).
I was signed off for two weeks initially and told to call the surgery near the end of that time and they would extend if necessary.
So it's not that unusual

Potential Courses of Action

1. Verification of Sick Leave
2. Challenge the Medical Note: The employer can request further clarification from the employee regarding their medical certificate if there are concerns about its legitimacy. Employers can seek confirmation from the doctor or request an independent medical assessment if there is a genuine suspicion of fraud. However, this must be done carefully and within legal boundaries to avoid discrimination claims.
3. Monitoring the Employee’s Activities: If it is known that the employee is attending job interviews or engaging in activities inconsistent with their medical condition, this could be a breach of the implied duty of trust and confidence. The employer would need evidence to prove this, which may require a private investigation or other forms of legitimate evidence collection.
4. Payment Obligations
5. Statutory Sick Pay (SSP): If the employee is entitled to SSP rather than full salary during sick leave, the employer may reduce the employee’s pay to the statutory minimum. This could be a significant cost-saving if the employer has no contractual obligation to pay full salary during sick leave.
6. Holiday Pay: The employer is legally obliged to pay for any unused holiday leave. This is non-negotiable under UK law. However, the employer could refuse the holiday request, which would require paying for those days but ensure the employee does not benefit from extra time off before leaving.

You should revise your sick pay policy, won't help now but I know a few smaller businesses won't do sick pay unless the employee has been with for x amount of time. Has he got the full 5 days holiday entitlement to use?