HR ‘fun’

[PoutyTrouty]

Advice would be appreciated.

Poor, tired NHS worker here.

Had a meeting with my manager and a very biased member of HR.

My contract is very vague but my manager has been trying to send me to other work sites knowing I can’t get there on time (morning school drop off, first school age). The meeting was to discuss how this can be sorted.

HR lady suggested-

I pick one day every week I can travel and I can sort out alternative school drop off arrangements (I have absolutely no one else to do it)

Drop the children off at school earlier (like I can magically open the school gates 20 minutes earlier. Or leave a 5 year old waiting by the gate while I go on my jolly way).

Ask the fully booked breakfast club across the street if they can just have my children for 20 minutes so I can go to work (they’re not even registered at this club, she just seems to think that’s how breakfast clubs work)

Ask my other half to change his working hours. Which we can’t do because he collects them from school, so if he started later then we’d have no one to pick them up.

I offered to stay behind after my shift to make up for the time I’d be late but that wasn’t good enough. Even though there’s always something to do and I like keeping busy.

HR lady didn’t say a word to the manager about maybe just giving me that bit of flexibility.

This may be revisited in the near future, can I request that this naff HR lady is not involved this time? Should I complain about her bonkers suggestions to her manager?

Ask for the minutes of the meeting.
Contact your union regarding your contract, can they send you off anywhere willy nilly?
How long have you been in your current position and current hours and location?
Is it reasonable they all of a sudden want you to be available to go all over the city?
Stand your ground.

Are you in a union? If not, contact them for advice. They are unlikely to represent you in an ongoing issue if you aren't already a member but they will give you advice.

Put in writing what you can and cannot do. What does your actual contract say, and why are they veering off it?

ETA - you can request someone else from HR get involved.

Definitely ask for minutes and if anything is missing or not as you recall, query it in writing. And yes of course you can ask for someone else to be there.

But the main issue is your contract is "vague". Are you assigned to one site or does it say you can be asked to work at multiple sites? Has it always said that and if it's a recent change did something trigger that? Is there a genuine work reason for you to be at multiple sites at a specific time even if it's not something you want to do - ie shift change so the teams need cover or to do handover care notes?

I'd argue that if you weren't putting forward any suggestions bar working later, then HR can suggest any bonkers idea she likes. And of course can legitimately say we suggested x ideas and you suggested none. So is there any option that works to get to other sites earlier?

Ultimately it's not on your employer to fix your childcare issues. Obviously it's good if they can be flexible but they don't have to be. The union should be able to help especially if they can demonstrate other similar cases and how they have been solved.

Contracts are not vague, they may contain poorly drafted clauses but on the issue of whether or not you can be required to work at different sites there should either be a clause requiring it (“may be required” would be enough) OR if there isn’t a specific clause requiring this there is nothing to enforce. Sounds like the HR person is not familiar with employment law! I would ask them which clause in your contract they are relying on to keep asking you to do something you have clearly told them is not possible. However, if there is a clause the childcare arrangements are on you and I would suggest you get your Union to help you negotiate.

Hi, the NHS can be flexible if you have young kids my DD and exDDP did he had set days he didn't work to accommodate child care arrangements. Look into this.🙂

Check out NHS flexible working requests on google

but your child care isnt there problem it is you to solve
how long have you been there
is this request to travel to different sites new and/or expected?

but your child care isn't there problem it is you to solve

Not this again. If employers expect flexibility from employees, they should be prepared to give flexibility to employees too. Employment is a relationship, it's not a one way street.

She has a solution for the problem, she needs them to work with her to make it possible - the alternative being that they lose an employee and have to rehire (and that is expensive) it's not an unreasonable request she has.

OP - if they said it was OK to start later at the other sites, could you make that work? Or is going to other sites the entire problem?

What does your contract actually say?

I’m surprised they were offering CC suggestions

they can ether move you or they can’t I suspect they can
you can request flexible working but it’s not a given. All depends on the needs of the business and can they accommodate it

check your contract and submit a flexible working request

It sounds like she was making suggestions...I dont think she was particularly out of order given that the meeting was to try and solve the issue.

But I'd say get union involved and also put a formal flexible working request in.

Without knowing if travel to other sites is in your vague contract, its hard to say whether your managers request is totally unreasonable.

I'm also not sure if you can have the meeting in future without a HR representative, presumably your manager wanted HR there? But you could take union representation with you.

What does your contract say? Have you specified start time? ( regardless of location?)
Is this a new thing?

If a particular start time is specified surely you've had a lot of time to sort childcare arrangements to ensure you get to work on time.
I start at 8 am. I've always known that. When I went back to work after having kids I arranged childcare ( nursery/after school club/childminder/au pair/nanny/babysitter etc) months and months in advance to ensure I met my working arrangements/contract. Having children doesn't automatically entitle you to just pick and choose a start time without negotiation and reasonable give and take on both sides

If you are now struggling to meet your working obligations can you request flexible hours?

This was a flexible working meeting.

The job ad when I applied said nothing about travelling to other sites. And when interviewed they said I may have to go elsewhere occasionally to cover sickness etc.

My contract says, with consultation with the employee and taking into consideration personal circumstances, you may have to work on other sites ‘as and when required’. So I thought this would be a few times a year as said in the interview. Not weekly.

They're trying to tell me this is how it’s been all along but a few of my colleagues who were hired around the same time were told the exact same thing as I was.

I’d like to think I’m a valuable member of staff, I love my job and go out of my way to help. But it seems the lower bands are just seen as easily replaceable sometimes.

I have contacted my union but haven’t heard anything back.

Thank you for your replies by the way ☺️

I can get to my main site on time as I live 5 minutes away and schools are also close. Other sites are 30+ mins

The breakfast club near school is fully booked and there’s a waiting list.

Grandparents have all passed away, other members of family are at work. If I had other options I would use them but I really don’t.

If I knew all this extra travelling was going to be the case I would have never took the job, because I know I can’t do it.

Ex-NHS HR here. Not every job can offer flexibility.

OP, if flexibility in this job isn’t possible, are there other jobs you could move into? How long have you been employed there?

And have you pointed out this wasn’t discussed during the recruitment process?

Been at the Trust 20 years but in this role just over a year.

I pointed out about how frequent travel wasn’t mentioned during recruitment and they said I just assumed it wouldn’t be frequent 🙄

I love this job and love the people, I don’t wanna have to leave 😔

Could you get a child minder to take your children to school once or twice a week?

So what’s been happening for the last year? What’s lead to the FWR? Is it the sort of role that lends itself to flexibility or is it covering a clinic with fixed times?

This is rotten.

I would get yourself on the waiting list for the breakfast club and local childminder, even if you know it will take an age to get places. Then ask for written confirmation that you're on said list.

Is there an after school club that would work if you and DH swapped and he did drop off?

It's painfully hard to make it all work all the time - you have my every sympathy!

Do you get paid expenses for travelling to other sites?

Normally travel time to other offices (but not your main office) is classed as working time, so you could argue that you are actually starting earlier to work in these other locations.

My dp had a similar situation, also NHS. He'd worked in the same department for years and then his dept took over managing another department in a different hospital and now he needs to work there one week each month. It's an extra 20min drive each way. Which is additional petrol too.

He did dispute it, like you, and was told there's a catch-all clause in all NHS contracts about being expected to work across all sites 'as and when required.' although he sometimes does get to leave early if we're really stuck.

It now means he's home at 3:30 rather than 3pm so he's not back in time for our youngest getting out of school. As dp shift starts at 7am it leaves all school runs to me on those weeks that he's at the other hospital!

And we can't just magic up childcare for 15mins a day, one week a month. Paying after school club for that would be ridiculous even if we could get a space, which we can't.

It really annoys me how much control an employer can have over your life, by changing small details they complete fuck the delicate balance of childcare arrangements and work juggle.

100%.

It’s mad how they can do this. I work my ass off, never sick, always happy to fill in if extra shifts come up.

We have staff that do the exact hours the management wants, but are off all the time on long term sick.

It’s a 24 hour service so even if I were to stay over there is always stuff to do, always staff to help out.

I know there’s the whole ‘if they bend the rules for you then everyone will want the same..’ but the other staff will kick off, be told no and they just walk away and get grandparents to sort the children out. I wish I had that option 😔

I just feel so stuck and it’s really getting me down

It’s not much help if there is a patient waiting for her while she’s travelling though.

Which is a management problem to solve, not the OPs.

They are essentially asking OP to start early (to travel) when it’s not feasibly possible.

There is no travel time built into these cover arrangements sadly.

OP, stand your ground. This is not your problem to fix, it's theirs. You have offered a very reasonable compromise but if they need someone on a particular site one day a week and that's not specified in your contract then they need to look for another person to cover. One day a week is not 'as and when' cover (which is a reasonable ask). Speak to your union and don't bend on the matter - managers get paid to solve staffing problems.