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Original poster

Sexism or am I just s***?

60 replies

ageingcrone · 04/01/2005 15:20

I'd really appreciate your thoughts and advice here - I've worked with this company for almost 5 years and took 6 months on mat leave last year - have now been back 9 months. Am reasonably senior and - I thought - respected. While I was on mat leave the company recruited a man to fill in for me and he was kept on.

When I came back Replacement Dude made it clear that he thinks I'm shit (feeling is 100% mutual) and has been very obstructive. So we have never had a good reln. My boss just tells me that I need to rise above it which I try to do. However, I have just found out that he is paid £35k more than me, to do part of the job I used to do. I found out because he sent the salaries spreadsheet to the whole team so not only do I know, but the everyone who works for me knows. I do all the new business, marketing, team managament and handle 80% of the business. He has one account and contributes nothing else.

I'm so hurt and angry I don't know what to do. What would you do?

OP posts:
alicatsg · 04/01/2005 16:27

We're the same level - both company directors (the kind with no equity just all the responsibility!). I have no idea how he got the spreadsheet tho, he insists he didn't know it was attached to the time planner.

I do see everyones points but I have to be careful I'm not overreacting on him (on the salary issue fine, but I can't really blame him for that (tho suspect he was involved in Kennedy assassination...!)). We're chalk and cheese - at Xmas I'd planned to take our shared PA out for lunch as a thank you and did the right thing and asked him to join us. He never turned up and told her it was because he was too busy for such an unimportant meeting. She was in tears. I'm a mother hen and made a fuss and was asked whether I'd be the same about anyone else? I dunno.

TheDragon · 04/01/2005 16:29

Sounds like he's an ar$e, not like you're over reacting.

mistletoe · 04/01/2005 16:30

Haven't read all of this but ....

He's being paid £35K more, and is so incompetent as to send round salary figures by mistake. Bl**dy hell !!!

First of all I'd be completely affronted if the whole team got to know my salary, whatever it's level.

If he came in as your maternity replacement, I would expect him to be paid the same.

I'd kick up a VERY big stink, but be prepared to find a job elsewhere too.

alicatsg · 04/01/2005 16:30

I knew we weren't destined to be friends when he told me he thought Michael Howard had a powerful mind and a great future.

lalaa · 04/01/2005 16:31

I think you sound like a fab manager. How thoughtful to take out your PA for Xmas. He's a wank*r.

Please don't think that you are making a fuss about nothing. If you speak to the Equal Opps Commission (or have a look at their website - lots of helpful info) you could at least start putting out feelers re where you stand.

If it's important to you, then it's important.

lalaa · 04/01/2005 16:38

EOC advice on equal pay for like work here

alicatsg · 04/01/2005 16:51

Thanks - definitely looks like I have a potential case. Any legal minds out there able to advise?

sis · 04/01/2005 19:56

What would I do? I would contact the EOC and get an equal pay questionnaire from them and then talk to my employer and say that I intend to send them the questionnaire (if the do not respond to it or only partially respond, it can be used as evidence against them at an employment tribunal). I would say that I believe I am being discriminated against on grounds of my sex and that not only must it stop (ie at least equal pay) but I will have no hestitation in taking them to tribunal for victimisation is they treat me less favourable because I made a complaint of discrimination.

£35,000! that is an outrageous gap

Mooseofawaterwitch · 04/01/2005 20:05

Wow, that's terrible, totally agree with sis. Also, I'd say document everything that's been said to date and document it now. If you take action it could take a year to come to tribunal and you need to have made notes at the time or the tribunal may question your version of events. Well, they will question your version anyway, but if you document it now because you feel you're being discriminated against then it will be better evidence. I would ignore the 'hormonal' allegations in your mind as best you can but if you feel inclined, I'd document them in the form of a formal complaint, via email. If you put it in writing he might just be stupid enough to write back admitting to it and it's evidence. Just because you're a woman ffs! I don't know how they could possibly justify the pay difference,but in fact I bet they can't. So make them do it by doing as sis suggests. Also, can you get hold of his job description to see how it differs (or not) from yours? If you can't get it internally did your co give any agency a written brief and if so could you get it that way? Copy any emails on the subject and take them home. I'd be spitting mad too. Will post again if I think of anything but sympathy.

MrsBigD · 04/01/2005 20:05

ageincrone - that's outrageous. 35k difference for less work?! Well then again my MD used to be on 100k more than me and I did all his work but that's different.

as for sending round the salary spreadsheet... one of our senior secretaries did that accidentially when she was circulating a memo to all the MD's and Directors... she was fired for that for gross misconduct! Mainly I think because it caused major riot amongst the junior directors to find out how much the senior ones were on...

studenti · 04/01/2005 20:09

I'm truly shocked by this, alicatsg. Hope you can do something about it- sis's ideas sound fantastic, as always. It'd be pretty cool if you got a £35.000 pay rise, wouldn't it?

Caligula · 04/01/2005 20:15

Um, I think it sounds absolutely standard, actually. In a non-unionised work environment where no-one is supposed to know anyone else's wage, and the rate is for the person rather than job, people with penises are almost always paid more than people with vaginas.

The reason for this is that the sex discrimination act was deliberately formulated to be ineffective and crap. Thirty years after it first came on to the statute books, we're still having to live with this crap. All through my working life in advertising, I always knew that my male colleagues were paid more than me, but because of confidentiality about salary details, there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. I could never say to my bosses: what does so and so earn, because it was bad form and none of my business. The Equal Pay act may as well not have existed.

But now that you actually have proof that the company are operating a discriminatory pay policy, you can either frighten them into paying you more - much more - or consider legal action against them.

Moomina · 04/01/2005 20:43

"people with penises are almost always paid more than people with vaginas"

For 35K it had better be a bloody big penis.

Yurtgirl · 04/01/2005 20:52

Message withdrawn

Yurtgirl · 04/01/2005 20:53

Message withdrawn

Caligula · 04/01/2005 22:20

Moomina!

That's the staggering thing about it, it's such a MASSIVE amount of money, and they justify it on the basis that "well he asked for it, she didn't".

When everything's done on one to one negotiation, and there's no real set rate for the job (one director's job that was advertised in my department had a wage of between £55K to £90K - ???) these massive disparities become the norm. And of course, you can guess whose getting the lower end of the scale.

alicatsg · 05/01/2005 12:42

well I'm just back from a pitch with my boss (who didn't come in yesterday because he was tired.....) and he's too busy to talk till Friday.

I'm tired now.

Tanzie · 05/01/2005 12:46

Hopefully he's shitting himself as he doesn't have a leg to stand on, which is why he is "tired" . Or is maybe buying time until he can get some legal advice?

I'm not surprised you are tired. No help really, but thinking of you and the best of luck.

Tanzie

xx

MrsBigD · 05/01/2005 13:49

definitely sounds like he's trying to buy time. Get some legal advice yourself just in case...

tigermoth · 05/01/2005 14:09

wow, I am amazed at the huge discrepancy in salary. I worked in advertising too and know that individual salaries are very negotiable in that line of business, but still....

As you have seen the salaries spreadsheet, how does replacement dude's salary compare to others in your company - both male and female employees? is this just a sex discrimination issue? Could it make your case even stronger if you point out other directors are being paid much less than him for similar responsibilities?

alicatsg · 05/01/2005 14:17

It was only for our team - 40 people out of the 300+ in the company. So I have no idea if its just I'm underpaid or if we're all underpaid.

I don't know if it is sexism. we're not unionised and there are no formally published payscales. All directors have the same job description. I can accept some seniority = more cash but we're pretty much on parity on that.

Boss obviously knows he's in trouble because he's just told me that if I win more business then there'll be more money for us all. You'd think we were on our knees the way he's going on but we're not - I won 60% of our opportunities last year which is outstanding imo.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH. Thank god for Mumsnet or he'd have a stapler where the sun don't shine. I'm off to win more business for a couple of hours. grrrr.

Freckle · 05/01/2005 14:20

Now that is silly. If you won 60% of opportunities last year, why should you have to win more business to put you on a parity with someone who clearly won fewer opportunities?? Surely he should be making the other chap get his rse in gear to bring in business to justify his bl*dy enormous salary??

alicatsg · 06/01/2005 13:22

now I'm cross - boss is definitely avoiding me - apart from a team meeting where he didn't meet my eyes once. What does he think? That'll I'll forget????

Freckle · 06/01/2005 14:40

Have you written to him about this? Perhaps you should write your complaint down and copy it to someone higher up the chain. That way he can't avoid dealing with it or he'd have to explain to his superiors (unless he's the top bod).

alicatsg · 07/01/2005 15:08

OK boss and I have spoken and he is going to address the issue. Will have to wait to see what that results in. got LOTS of motivational crap about building my business too. yawn.