Too many off sick

[Scintella]

My ideas- (as gov seems utterly stumped)

There should be an opportunity to work 2 days a week for 2 months, then 3 days for 6 months until the worker feels able to cope with full time.
All the people diagnosed with ADHD and autism pre 2000 are possibly not properly medicated - are they being followed up regularly are they on the best treatment (some of which are new since their diagnosis)
All the people with undiagnosed ADHD and autism pre 2000 who with good support and medication could work
All the negative media we see on a daily basis giving the impression of a rich class who are swanning around and living off suspect unearned money etc etc There are many but it's not everyone and people such as doctors pay 40% tax or thereabouts. I think this puts people off slogging for a min wage job whcih require still benefits too to live makes them feel WTF should I?
Low income often means UPF food as it's cheapest. Subsidise fruit and veg.
Charities start more meet up groups/ walking groups/ fitness groups with cheap free access.

More support groups for mental health problems. People are too isolated at home with phone and tv. The time is filled but makes it harder to go out and socialise. Also discourages exercise.
No lodgings as there were in the past. So single men, women living alone in tiny flats eating takeaways. In the past they'd be in lodgings with social contact and an evening meal. For one person a takeaway is prob cheaper. Some people do need support but we pretend they don't now.
If there were a few of the get together groups in an area so easily accessed I think that would make a big difference.
Of course the NHS needs fixed etc and councils need more money but that isn't going to happen soon

Does this not include sickness benefits that many retired people also get?

Quick question, if we get all the sick/"work shy" back... what they going to do?

I mean perhaps sort mental health provision first and the nhs etc..

But perhaps a bigger issue is where they going to work?

Im a science graduate, with experience working in pharma and tech for nearly 20 years. Got made redundant last year.

I've never known the job market so awful. I can't commute too far as it costs too much, and I have small kids.

Linked in is over run with green circles, people looking and being made redundant. Some for over a year.

I dont think I've ever seen the job market so awful.

Even the local council has only a few jobs, most of which I'm not qualified for e.g. lawyer

When I type in to google "jobs in town name" it comes up with pizza restaurant waitress, carer, and a few minimum wage jobs. I literally can't afford it. Shops in my town are failing each day... independent and bigger ones... wilko, party shop, etc.

I really hate my job and would love to change sectors. I thought about being a TA in school, something i think I would love but I literally can't afford it. It pays too little.

This is an interesting idea and in an ideal world I'd support it... however, the phrase "you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink" springs to mind. For therapy to be effective, it needs to be voluntary and someone needs to engage with it properly. So I guess mandatory therapy would be a waste of money...

Having said that, I am a firm believer that therapy should be widely accessible and affordable for those who need/want it.

This is so very true.

Nimbys everywhere

https://x.com/Number10cat/status/1781356828997079122

This

And also not everyone with ADHD chooses to / can medicate. It’s not the magic bullet that some (generally NT) people think it is…

Yes agree with this. The only time in recent years that I've had to take sick time off/ get signed off was in 2019 for anxiety/ depression after starting a new job and encountering a horrible bullying manager. I was signed off for 2 weeks, was able to go back to my lovely old employer and was fine since. Thankfully I did the right thing for me by leaving quickly and was able to recover. I understand not everyone has that option. looking back a lot of the anxiety was menopausal also and I needed medication. A lot of employers are not sympathetic to MH issues and menopause etc. In the past a lot of older women going through this did not work or worked very part time. Nowadays everyone is expected to work full time, often in demanding work supporting others. Half of the middle aged women in my office are on anti-depressants, we support a lot of vulnerable, often very demanding customers with complex problems ( think MH, addiction, benefits, long term ill, people in poverty ) but we turn up to work day in day out, often for not great pay. We are able to do it because we do to some extent have a supportive manger ( who is still at work despite being over pension age himself ) and a supportive system which allows people to wfh if caring for relatives, is flexible etc . I realise not everyone is so lucky.

OP with the best will in the world unless you work in this arena, you really aren’t aware of the type of person that is sinking the benefits system. They’re not people who just need that little bit of help to get back into work, they’re people that either don’t want to or are incapable of working.

In many cases they’re people who have spent 10, 20 years on unemployment benefits and have collected a series of diagnoses due to neglecting their own physical and mental health via drink, drugs, smoking and unhealthy lifestyles and as such are now on disability benefits. They usually have a clutch of conditions such as ADHD, anxiety and non-pathological pain disorders such as fibromyalgia. They have little to no experience of working life and have no basic skills such as time management.

You can’t ’get them better’ as they won’t engage with any support offered to them. They won’t turn up, they’ll barely remember what day it is.

I don’t know what the answer is for these types of cases, I don’t think there is one tbh. It’s a mess.

I disagree with "lodgings" I believe everyone has a right to a space of their own (with bathroom and cooking facilities of their own) with security I.e lifetime tenancy or long term tenancy. I work and can't afford takeaways .. who can afford regular takeaways these days?

Oh and bring back Remploy.

I think we also need to look at workloads. There are many many people in work with very poor mental or physical health. So many work places expect their employees to work like robots, with no consideration for what is happening in people's lives. For example when I started at my old workplace 6 years ago, there were 6 full time members of staff. This had been cut in a restructure from 10 full time staff. When I left 3 years ago we were down to 1 full time member of staff and 2 part time (2 days a week). Our workload had not decreased, in fact it had increased significantly. We were entirely run off our feet, constantly playing catch up, everything hung in a fine balance. If a member of the team was off sick or had a family emergency then we were screwed for that day. There are workplaces up and down the country like this.

Thankfully I now work in our family business where we can choose our own hours and go at our own pace.

Fruit and veg aren't very calorie dense though, so if you have very little money to spend on food, you are still going to get more of your daily calories for less money by buying a frozen pizza.

Clearly you know fuck all about autism or any other disability so why don't you stop pontificating and wind your neck in.

I cannot believe that there are people around this ignorant. No wonder this vile government has been in power for so many years.

Any action is pretty pointless until the root causes are established. Trying to fix a problem without knowing or addressing the root causes would just be a complete waste of resources.

"All the people diagnosed with ADHD and autism pre 2000 are possibly not properly medicated - are they being followed up regularly are they on the best treatment (some of which are new since their diagnosis)
All the people with undiagnosed ADHD and autism pre 2000 who with good support and medication could work"

What support and follow ups? I was diagnosed with Autism in 2012 and was told to go to social services if I wanted support.

They were clueless. They couldn't understand that too much noise was painful and that I needed more than 30 minutes notice for an appointment.

They decided after that not to work with me because I was supposedly awkward.

OP, maybe you should educate yourself on the wealth gap;

https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years

If you can't be bothered to read in then this sentence summarises it;

"Elon Musk, one of the world’s richest men, paid a “true tax rate” of about 3 percent between 2014 and 2018. Aber Christine, a flour vendor in Uganda, makes $80 a month and pays a tax rate of 40 percent."

Maybe they could fund better healthcare for the sick and disabled by going after the estimated £570 billion unpaid tax that wealthy fit and able people have evaded paying by stashing it in overseas tax havens. The sickness benefit budget is a drop in the ocean compared to that.

It’s all connected… they need to bring box Sure Start centres, have decent mental health provision and properly fund support for SEN kids. Decent secure housing at reasonable rents, better public transport, more job opportunities in deprived areas and that’s just for starters. If the government managed to fix the whole host of other issues, then I believe the high numbers of out of work people would naturally reduce a bit.

I was hoping to get suggestions of ways to help fix this - don’t autistic people, for example, need extra support at work?
and could this be provided.
I work with some Sen people in a charity so we aren’t paid. That are sent there by the job centre to gain skills, but don’t usually get employment. Just stay there. Things like acute anxiety I would have thought could be helped nowadays.
I mentioned lodgings because some of the workers live on their own and are v seriously overweight
I have also volunteered at an adult reading service. But people won’t admit they need help so unless the state sets things up and obliges people to get help they won’t go.

the costs are 3billion and rising and don’t include pensions

I think people mistake work for please be my new parent and baby me though all my issues.
Work is business. you work and in exchange they give you money for your time. Quite frankly they don't care about your issues. They care about earning money for their business or that the wards/clinics are properly staffed.
I have had complex CPTSD since I was in my late teens and have occasional hallucinations and hear voices.
I am also registered disabled, I don't have to use a wheelchair yet but possibly in a couple of years.
I have worked full time for 45 years.
I couldn't manage my last job (nursing) once I got to 40 so I retrained for an NHS job (well paid) where I can do all of my work from a chair or wheelchair should I so choose.
I bought up my son on my own, didn't have any problems.
A condition of my job is that I see a psychiatrist once a month, they obviously cannot have lunatics running amok in the NHS. I am given an hour to do this but would be prepared to do this in my own time.
OH has sorted out my disability needs.
I function very well at work and only rarely go off sick. I don't talk about my problems, I just get on with work.
People MUST take more responsibility for themselves. We've had a number of new starters who quite frankly have been an absolute embarrassment and within 6 months have just been fired.
The help is there, I've had plenty of it. My friend at work is autistic and gets lots of help through work, there is a support group for autistic staff and staff with ADHD. But you have to use your own initiative as well.

I agree in principle about the majority of people can do something.
Having worked with anxiety and depression for decades I can see the benefits of working.
However this last job has highlighted that my potential adhd_autism has resulted in me being treated poorly.
Pretty much ostracized.
I can see how anyone else with this awaiting diagnosis could feel worse and give up .
Employers need to do more to educate others or we will always been seen as different.

The help is there, I've had plenty of it. My friend at work is autistic and gets lots of help through work, there is a support group for autistic staff and staff with ADHD. But you have to use your own initiative as well.
Best practice that could be spread wider

And why do new recruits have no mental resilience ?

Perhaps Because they are brought up in a failed education system and in a failing society and because any problems they might have never get fixed ?

The help quite frankly isn't there for most people and most professionals in the field will tell you exactly that

And professionals have stated to say that society and business will need to change and be more accepting of fragility and frailty if there isn't going to be enough money to mend people

• it costs to keep people healthy -

@Scintella what's living alone got to do with being overweight?

Remploy and Community Programmes were excellent services provided by the job centre.

Ultimately though, I don't think Rishi really cares about the solutions, he made this statement purely in a vain attempt to gain some more voters, and he is seeking the Daily Mail vote. The same voters who last week read the article about the person making a living from PIP applications and boasting about her success rate.