Too many off sick

[Scintella]

My ideas- (as gov seems utterly stumped)

There should be an opportunity to work 2 days a week for 2 months, then 3 days for 6 months until the worker feels able to cope with full time.
All the people diagnosed with ADHD and autism pre 2000 are possibly not properly medicated - are they being followed up regularly are they on the best treatment (some of which are new since their diagnosis)
All the people with undiagnosed ADHD and autism pre 2000 who with good support and medication could work
All the negative media we see on a daily basis giving the impression of a rich class who are swanning around and living off suspect unearned money etc etc There are many but it's not everyone and people such as doctors pay 40% tax or thereabouts. I think this puts people off slogging for a min wage job whcih require still benefits too to live makes them feel WTF should I?
Low income often means UPF food as it's cheapest. Subsidise fruit and veg.
Charities start more meet up groups/ walking groups/ fitness groups with cheap free access.

More support groups for mental health problems. People are too isolated at home with phone and tv. The time is filled but makes it harder to go out and socialise. Also discourages exercise.
No lodgings as there were in the past. So single men, women living alone in tiny flats eating takeaways. In the past they'd be in lodgings with social contact and an evening meal. For one person a takeaway is prob cheaper. Some people do need support but we pretend they don't now.
If there were a few of the get together groups in an area so easily accessed I think that would make a big difference.
Of course the NHS needs fixed etc and councils need more money but that isn't going to happen soon

Working doing what? One of my DC was looking for work last year and over half of the job advertisements had no salary. We need to be very aware that a lot of businesses are not paying a fair wage and demanding very high standards for menial jobs, degree level for secretarial or junior roles is ridiculous.

I think the problems are complex and so are the solutions. But things that would help:

Better, earlier access to mental health services for adults and children (how many parents are missing work caring for children with mental health issues, or managing work while trying to get treatment for a child who is stuck on a CAMHS waiting list?)

Better access to physical health services, easier access to gp services, quicker referrals, quicker treatments.

More preventative treatments and services. Catch issues before they escalate into problems that mean people can't work.

More understanding from employers that people are humans and have challenges and health issues and lives and families and responsibilities outside of work. Employers expect people to be robots at work, and it's unrealistic. (This is a generalisation, I know, but is certainly my experience).

Wages that mean that people don't need to work every hour god sends in order to make ends meet. If people can earn enough from working less hours a week, that means they have time to cook nutritious meals, shop for vegetables, care for family members, engage in hobbies which support physical and mental health and generally manage their lives outside of work. I like the idea of a universal basic income.

This isn't an exhaustive list. Things like green spaces that everyone can access, better education around health, nutrition, and fitness, a wholesale change in the amount of processed food in our diets, a huge improvement in social care both for workers and unpaid carers, and those recieving care, would also help. There are probably other things too. There isn't a single solution, or silver bullet. It's a whole social, political, cultural change that is needed.

All of these things require time, financial investment, but also social commitment, and a change in social values. And a change in government would be a good start.

I don’t think your ideas are bad OP but it’s not the post WW2 world that we live in anymore, where there was the collective will to create a a fit and healthy Britain. At that time, we were a smaller, homogenous population with a large number of young people. People lived and worked in the same towns and villages most of their lives, so had a connection to their community.Church used to play a big role in people’s lives and had a huge role in the community, now it doesn’t. But these were also hard times and Britain was not as affluent as it is now.
Britain has completely changed. Everything is more transient and we are much richer. People move a lot- for work, better house, fresh start.
We are richer as a nation, therefore, we don’t need to rely on our families and communities as we once completely depended on. But now we have become over reliant on the state. The problem is I can’t see how we get out of this.
Families in Asia etc support other family members financially, which is something we just don’t do here. So to remove any benefits etc, it places people in a difficult position and there aren’t the communities around to pick up the slack and support. So we are stuck.
We live in a rich country that relies on the movement of people and large scale immigration but that in turn changes our communities and we become less reliant on each other and in times of need rely on the state Instead. Its the price we pay to live in an affluent country in 2024

The problem is inclusion is great in principle but the reality is different. My team has recently hired someone with autism. They're bright enough but they have to be told everything half a dozen times before it sinks in. It's very wearing even though we all know it's not their fault.

Whilst I agree that being in the structure and routine of work is known to have a positive impact on MH I think we need to go way back to basics here. It's not as simple as "just work".

Why have we had an explosion of poor mental health? We need to address this at its root cause because NHS services cannot cope if this is the level of help needed going forward. It's not just funding, NHS staff are leaving in their droves because complexity of cases they are looking after is so much more difficult. We need research into why. Covid effect?

Anyone can sign up to a job agency and they find the jobs for you. One of my sons did this after he was made redundant. They found him work in a warehouse. Not glamorous and hard physical work but work none the less. After working there through the agency for 6 months the company took him on. I think they had to pay the agency to release him. DS got an immediate £4.5 pay rise when working directly for the company. DS is not very good at interviews so it was good for him. He has ADHD and has always worked full time. My elder son also has ADHD and works full time. Having ADHD doesn't mean you can't work.

All the people diagnosed with ADHD and autism pre 2000 are possibly not properly medicated - are they being followed up regularly are they on the best treatment (some of which are new since their diagnosis

There is no medication for autism. ADHD, yes, but not autism by itself.

You don't know what you're talking about, there is no medication for autism.

The budget for benefits includes the state pension which makes up the vast majority doesn't it? Or was this using only sickness benefit figures against education budget figures?

We need to understand WHY sickness, whether mental health or otherwise, has gone up so fast since the pandemic.

I know from my own as a Welfare Rights Adviser that there is a significant cohort waiting for surgery on conditions affecting mobility or physical stff like backs or arms that stop them working.

Long Covid is another.

Yesterday's propsals are Tory culture war stuff. Nothing more.

I wasn't talking about ADHD and find it a bit weird the thread seems to be saying everyone off long term sick has ADHD... Glad your son found work. My point was more that businesses are making a decision to up the requirements for basic office work for no reason and keep the pay hidden so that they can assess age and experience on interview and give as little as they think they can get away with, also depending on sex. Every job should have clear salary stated before interview so young people don't get stiffed.

Long Covid is huge and people (particularly in the govt who didn't believe in Covid when it arrived) don't seem to be able to join the dots.

DS was only earning minimum wage through the agency but got a pay rise once taken on directly by the company and over the last 2 years has had a 9 percent pay rise each year. Every job advertised must offer at least minimum wage. My younger DS doesn't have a degree but has 3 good A level grades including Maths.

Workplaces need to treat their employees better to get people back to work.

Get rid of stupid stressful appraisals
Improve working conditions and salaries
Get rid of punitive sickness policies
Pay overtime

My DC is now at University. I think you seem to be missing my point; job advertisements not giving a salary don't help anyone.

Long Covid being ignored by the PM is astounding though, particularly when he has also failed MH services and now wants to push people who are already in work into a situation where they can only be off for a year. How does he think that will help them get better? Another plan to kick it into the long grass for Labour.

It’s also impossible to get a job if you’re reading and writing are poor as there can be health and safety rules you must read and sign up to.

All the people diagnosed with ADHD and autism pre 2000 are possibly not properly medicated

Which medication would you like all these autistic people to be given?

Is your post ironic?
It's actually a huge indication their education policy hasn't worked very well over the last decade too...

If you want universal credit you have to wait 5 weeks. So if it was me I would not take a short term job and then have to wait 5 weeks afterwards to go back on universal credit. We've now found with carers allowance if you go over your hours a smidgen then you get penalized and potentially lose more money than you've earned. The poverty this traps people in is bound to make people anxious and depressed so then they can go on long term sick so they know what is coming in - it's stable. I would remove the five week wait and the terrifying penalties (,not rewards,) for working more hours and then people would be able to be brave and try new things

There are 7 million people on NHS waiting lists plus several life transforming medications that keep being out of stock in addition to higher levels of poverty so sickness rates are not surprising.

All those who think it will never happen to them, it can happen to anyone. I had never had a day off sick or been to the doctors and was very slim, fit and healthy then suddenly got autoimmune condition and couldnt walk. Now I just crave chocolate to cheer me up but can totally understand why people may get depressed if in pain or immobile.

I don't think it's fair to blame immigration (and therein 'foreigners') for our lack of community spirit. If we sent all the immigrants home, do you really think that we'd develop a sense of community?

I think the issue is our affluence. I lived in a less affluent country for some years and one of the things that struck me here was our independence, which was based on our affluence. In a row of 8 little terraced houses here, each house owns a lawnmower, a hedge cutter, a metal barbeque, etc etc. In the country I lived in, one household might own the lawnmower, while another had the barbeque. Things would be lent and borrowed. Leading to conversations, leading to help, leading to invitations, etc etc.

Strikingly, the people who were moved out of the Poplar slums into their new, bigger, more separate houses in Essex, reported that they missed the community feel back in the slums - everyone meeting for a chat at the communal washing line, etc etc.

I’m not blaming immigration. I’m saying that is the reason why we live in such an affluent country, because we have workers from all around the world coming here to provide their skills.
Im not talking about community spirit where people are getting involved with allotments etc.

I’m talking about where granny lives round the corner, so the kids can go there after school so the parents don’t have to pay for childcare; if you loose your job you have enough connections in the town to find something quickly, if you’re curtains have been closed for a few days your neighbours come and check if you’re ok.

That doesn’t exist in lots of places and hasn’t for a long long time. Im not saying its better or worse, I’m saying this is the world we live in. Which for all its faults, we are still lucky to live in because we are a very rich country. What made is rich however, isn’t going to change.

The problem with that is there's a substantial lack of neurodivergent affirming therapy available.

A lot of my comorbid anxiety along with my autism is precisely linked to being autistic.

I am worried that I'll be ostracised daily, because that has already happened and so it's not illogical or irrational and cannot be therapised out of me. I am always anxious that people will perceive me as being difficult, or misunderstand what I am saying, because that also happens on a very regular basis. I am worried that I will have meltdowns at work and people will see this and pass judgement because this happens in any public space where I have meltdowns. I am constantly on edge that I will have to justify and fight for my needs to be met at work, not just with my manager, but their manager, HR and any other management team linked to my workplace, and at every step they'll kick me back further because I'm currently off sick with stress because of exactly that.

I'm having multiple panic attacks a day because our business has just restructured and they're not able to facilitate my routine anymore and I can't cope with the changes they're asking of me. Every business I've ever worked for that has grown has had to restructure every so often, so this is just something I'm expected to get on with and can't.

I can talk though, and I do work from home, so as per the government's current proposal I should be fine to work and my employer who has already told me my requests for reasonable adjustments are unreasonable or unattainable due to costs, can just make more of an effort which would be terribly lovely if they did but I just can't see it happening which means job surfing again until I find another employer benevolent enough to meet my needs for an untold amount of time before it has to happen again.

Each time I have to fight for my needs, it's increasingly traumatic.

Out of work though I have my needs met and I am fine, happy even. I don't think there's any issue with my brain chemistry, so I don't feel like there's any reason why I should be taking medication to function in the rat race, especially when the last time I tried that, I went from feeling as I do now, to extremely suicidal when I was on them.

Personally I think workplaces are only ND tolerant, and not really ND supportive. Until they bring in legislation to support ND then people like me will always struggle at work.

Mandatory therapy ? What is this the 1930’s

Quadruple funding to mental health services!

Open many more mental health hospitals, make more mental health beds available and then more stepping down beds available.

I work in a sector where I have to deal with peoples behaviour and one of the questions I have to ask is if someone has support needs or MH conditions. I've done this job for almost 5 years, working 40 hours a week, 25 new cases every week.....I cannot remember the last time I asked someone that question and they DIDNT say they have anxiety and/or depression. One must ask, why is anxiety and depression so prevalent now and what should be done to fix that?

Most of these people I speak to aren't working (and most are aged 20-45yo) would more MH support allow these people to work? Would working and having a routine help them resolve their depression/anxiety? Would more available and intensive MH support in the short term make the long term prospects better? Keep or get more people into work and being productive?.