Offered civil service job but I need home working...

[Startingagainandagain]

To my surprise I was offered the first civil service job I applied for (ministry of justice) after starting to look for a new role about a month ago. The role was advertised with options like 'national' 'southeast' 'flexible/partime/jobshare working'

I am still waiting to be sent the details of the offer but there are a couple of issues:

• I am a long term health condition (I did declare that I had something that comes under disabilities/protected characteristics) at application stage
• I am based in Kent and I had to travel to London for a face to face interview which wiped me out completely so I have realised that it would be impossible for me to do a regular commute to their London offices (it would be 2 hour each way and involve train/tube and bus).
• Wanting remote working is why I need to leave my current role because they went back on their promise of 1 day a month only in the London office at interview which caused me to have some serious health problems a few months ago, so I don't want to jump from bad to worse and end up with the same issue. I have to accept that my health means I just can't take on a commute anymore and need ever a local job or something fully remote.

Could anyone working for the civil service advise on how to negotiate this and how realistic it is that they might agree?

I know some government departments have offices in Dover which would be a manageable/affordable option for me and I might need to just to start again with the job search and only apply for roles that can be done from there.

This is my first time applying to the CS so still a learning process for me...

Would be grateful as well if people could suggest what government departments are open to full remote working.

It 100% depends on the role.

If you have a role that definitely requires an in office presence a few days a week, even if you have a protected characteristic or disability, they won’t be able to accommodate you - I just had to rescind a job offer from someone because of this and they’re being offered a job in another team instead - they’re not happy, but I need someone in 3 days a week minimum because of the job requirements. Job description said flexible working/job share possible - because it is But not to the level they wanted/needed. So, they might offer you a role in another team though.

There are simply some jobs that cannot be done fully from home…that said, my experience of my (brief) time at MoJ was they were about the most reasonable in terms of flexible working across Whitehall.

You can work fully remotely from almost all departments - but it depends on the job, the HR team, and what the T&Cs are. You’ll need to get a formal doctors note/ go through the proper process rather than just ask though - all PuS are under a lot of pressure to get staff (without appropriate passports) back in as much as possible.

Hope that helps!

Hi OP, currently there is an absolutely massive push across most Civil Service departments to get people back into offices. It tends to be either 2 days per week or 3 days per week in office, and there’s not much flexibility to argue it at all now.

It’s not going to help your case if you have applied for a job which has been advertised as being in a certain office and you are now going to try and argue that you can’t go to that office.

You might be able to negotiate down to 2 days a week in the office or 1 day a week in the office as reasonable adjustment, but I’d be extremely surprised if you manage to negotiate fully remote working having seen lots of experience & long term people try and fail.

There’s absolutely no harm in asking , technically my home office is several hours from home but I have an adjustment in place to work 100% at home based on health issues declared

The role is internal comms.

When I was chatting the person who accompanied me back down they said they did 2 days in the office.

Oh well, it looks like this might not work out because I could not even do one day a week: physically it would be impossible and financially it would not make sense based on the salary.

I will ask anyway but make sure I only apply for fully remote roles or something close by.

Agree with pp that there is very big push to get people back in which has been reported in the news. I am aware of a small number of folk who have had homeworker contracts agreed on health grounds, following occupational health assessment, but this is not common amongst those I know who work in CS

''It’s not going to help your case if you have applied for a job which has been advertised as being in a certain office and you are now going to try and argue that you can’t go to that office. ''

This was not advertised as a London based role. It was advertised as having various locations (national, south east, North, London...).

Either way it has been advertised as a role which requires office working, it’s not a remote working role, it is “based” somewhere.

The assumption is you apply for an office job = you want an office job. As I say there’s so many people who are long in the department, with existing health conditions making travel difficult, who now there is a push back in 3 days a week have tried to negotiate full time work from home and the answer is just no. Some manage to negotiate 1 or 2 days a week rather than 3, but they are really not keen to hand out remote worker contracts now.

What's i'internal Comms' ?

There is a push to get civil servants in 3 days a week but not all departments are enforcing it.

You need a conversation to scope things out with your new line manager. My guess is they will try and accommodate the terms you want - even if it’s not be exactly what you want. Be upfront because it’s better than taking the job and then leaving early on because it’s not working.

I don’t know about MOJ but a lot of CS departments have a recruitment freeze. Recruitment is difficult and expensive so that gives you some leverage, at least.

Doing the intranet (internal) page and updates etc.

It's quite an inward facing role IME - lots of little meetings and catchups, far more so than external comms.

I'm not CS but if you need a wfh job for reasons of health/disability then your best way of securing this is by declaring up front at time of application that you will need a reasonable adjustment on the grounds of disability.

Then having a review by their occupational health where you provide supporting evidence form HCP involved in your care. That way you can ensure that you're not lumped in with "it's everyone in the office 3 days a week" as you will be entitled to the reasonable adjustment.

The caveat to this is that it is a job that can be done remotely with no detriment to the business

The current position in the CS is 2 days a week working from home, which will move to 3 soon (or 60% of overall time - could be six days over two weeks). Outside of this is subject to negotiation. It is possible to work from home permanently (depending on the role). This isn’t flexible or hybrid working, it’s a different type of contract that requires supporting evidence etc and could be refused. However, if there are good reasons to work from home permanently (such as health reasons) then it should be possible to do this.

I'm not familiar with any office in Dover! The various offices have different functions though, so your team/work may not be able to be done from that particular one. Would either Colindale or Canary Wharf be any easier to get to if required?

You could always ask about attending that office or working solely from home. It really depends on the job though. A colleagues (different department) contract said to be in the office 2-3 days a week but due to her medical condition, she works solely from home. I don't know if she she started in the office then the illness got worse, or she started out WFH.
They have slowly increased the amount staff are required to be in the office though. Most recently its gone up to 60%. I do wonder when it will be 80% and potentially 100% in the office in time!

If your contract said home worker, then that would be an automatic option. Flexible, job share, part time does not mean WFH. There is no harm in asking for it as a reasonable adjustment, but clearly depends if there is a requirement to be onsite to perform the role.

Definitely wait until you get the offer and then speak to the hiring manager.

There are so many different roles in the CS & some will be flexible & some won't!

Good luck though!

Also consider going in Monday morning and staying overnight in town ? Then you could do 2 days and get a lot of rest in a hotel the second you finish work on the Monday evening

Is there a closer office, a court for example, that you could use? I don’t think you’d get away with no office working at all as it wasn’t advertised as home working (I am not a CS but partner is MOJ).

I have a relative who works for the civil service and works from home 99% of the time due to a reasonable adjustment for disability. They go to the office about once a quarter. Definitely worth asking about wfh as a reasonable adjustment if you’re otherwise keen on the role.

Actually depending on the hiring managers and the position you may be in a better position than those already in CS roles as you can negotiate this as part of your contract. Ask the question and explain your difficulty openly and honestly - you may be surprised!

Keep on with the process. I'm regional staff but FT WFH with monthly visits to a central hub and occasional visits to sites as required (specific to my role).

I only go into my local office (my nominal base) for one specific task and I haven't had cause to do that for several months. Plus it's a basement, dark, depressing, causes my disability to flare up and isn't even private for the task I have to do which is infuriating.

When Rees Mogg was willy waving and forcing the bosses to check up on us, most of us ignored the instructions and cracked on in the same way we have for the last 5yrs, as our term and way of working remotely predates Covid.

So it'll depend on the rules locally and the team you work for.

Given it’s a national based role you may find your team are all over the UK and it makes no difference to them if you’re in the office or not. Civil service can be brilliant for reasonable adjustments so I’d definitely email the manager and ask. State your reasons, and that you could maybe travel in one a month to see the team face to face?

Why didn’t you apply for a role advertised as fully remote if that’s what you need? You can’t move the goalposts now

As PP said, ask on the basis of health grounds. In my experience, CS is really flexible but does depend on job and maybe dept culture.

Yes, you can. Reasonable adjustments to accommodate a disability are the law, unless there’s an overriding business need.

I would proceed with caution OP. The civil service sounds a bit backwards when it comes to home working which makes me think they dont offer much flexibility in working arrangements.

Does anyone happen to know if the MOJ's 2-3 days a week in the office pay travelling expenses?