Offered civil service job but I need home working...

[Startingagainandagain]

To my surprise I was offered the first civil service job I applied for (ministry of justice) after starting to look for a new role about a month ago. The role was advertised with options like 'national' 'southeast' 'flexible/partime/jobshare working'

I am still waiting to be sent the details of the offer but there are a couple of issues:

• I am a long term health condition (I did declare that I had something that comes under disabilities/protected characteristics) at application stage
• I am based in Kent and I had to travel to London for a face to face interview which wiped me out completely so I have realised that it would be impossible for me to do a regular commute to their London offices (it would be 2 hour each way and involve train/tube and bus).
• Wanting remote working is why I need to leave my current role because they went back on their promise of 1 day a month only in the London office at interview which caused me to have some serious health problems a few months ago, so I don't want to jump from bad to worse and end up with the same issue. I have to accept that my health means I just can't take on a commute anymore and need ever a local job or something fully remote.

Could anyone working for the civil service advise on how to negotiate this and how realistic it is that they might agree?

I know some government departments have offices in Dover which would be a manageable/affordable option for me and I might need to just to start again with the job search and only apply for roles that can be done from there.

This is my first time applying to the CS so still a learning process for me...

Would be grateful as well if people could suggest what government departments are open to full remote working.

No they don’t.

You would only ever get travelling expenses paid if say you applied and got a job in one office and that office then closed and you were forced to go to a different one which is further away/more travel. Or if you are going to a different office/location for a meeting that is further away.

You apply for an office job, you are responsible for getting yourself there as it is the job you applied for.

You might be able to get this agreed.

I would ask for it as a reasonable adjustment for your health condition.

Expect to be asked about why other adjustments wouldn't do the trick - e.g. shorter days

It would also help if you were able to say that you would be able to come in for occasional things like away days.

If you do get it agreed, make sure it's reflected in your contact

No other job does, can't imagine the MOJ would!

Picking up on the fact that the role is internal comms - it’s going to be really unlikely to get a fully remote IC role or one with less than a couple of days in your business. To be effective in the role, you’ll need to be out where your audience is and meeting with stakeholders etc.

I manage a large national internal comms team and we are two days together in the same HQ office, with at least another day chosen by individual needs, either on site or in project meetings - and that day could be anywhere in the region.

I don’t think it’s completely unlikely to be fair. Just depends on the company.

My last two roles have been internal comms for two large national companies and we were all fully remote including the directors at both places. Occasionally asked to travel to office for specific reasons but 99% was from home.

That being said, no idea about the civil service. My two recent WFH internal comms roles have been private sector.

Exactly this (I'm in MoJ too). We do have lots of places to discuss with / refer to (such as MOJWAS) but unsure where to start before accepting the job. I know existing staff who have eventually been given WfH permissions.

You've got nothing to lose by asking. Just say what you said here, you hadn't realised it would be based in London and you found the commute too much, then outline how you think you could make it work e.g. from home but 2 days in the other office you mentioned if you think that's doable. You never know.

Thank you everyone for the feedback. It has been really helpful.

I have applied for quite a few fully remote working roles so might be better off just waiting for the right opportunity rather than jumping on the first job offered.

I will see what they have to say about remote working options though.

I was actually surprised to be offered the job if I am honest as I just saw this as an opportunity to get experience of applying for and interviewing for the civil service.

No, absolutely not if you're going to your home location - so when I go to mine, that's on my dollar as its treated as your regular commute.

We go to a central one every month as a team and that's fully covered for hotels / hire cars /meals etc.

I just wondered what benefits there might be as civil service salaries are low and the OP mentioned the cost of travelling and it is really expensive to commute into London from outside, I'm an hour away and it would cost £50 a day - I suppose there's the good pension, assume no private healthcare or dentistry but budget for training for career progression possibly?

As cabinet office are mad keen on increasing people in buildings, this is huge messaging for internal Comms teams to push so you might not get the flexibility of other departments like IT who are standing their ground!

@Bing123 excellent pension, unionised workplace, training will be specific to the role but unlikely you'll see a budget to spend on training as it doesn't work like that.

I did a Masters equivalent in my last role but it was a requirement for the role. All training in my current role has been in house / CS based and I've had to bid for anything outside of the role basics.

We've just had a round of voluntary redundancies, so we've been warned there is nil budget for additional training this year.

Not all workplaces are in London - there are piles of alternative places like probation offices, prisons and courts all over the country for the MOJ for example.

ETA - no, no dental or healthcare.

Good pension, a really good work life balance with flexibility you don’t get many places thanks to flexi working, hybrid working, you can request term time working, maternity pay 6 months full pay, full sick pay, 5-6 weeks full paternity pay, once you’re in you can apply for any internal promotions of which they are usually plenty, job security… lots of reasons really

there is an absolutely massive push across most Civil Service departments to get people back into offices. It tends to be either 2 days per week or 3 days per week in office, and there’s not much flexibility to argue it at all now.

This is true, but only for people on office based contracts. Civil service can and do offer home based contracts under which there is no requirement to be in the office 2/3 days per week.

Given your health condition OP there is no harm asking whether they would consider a home based contract. If they say no, then I wouldn't take the job as it means they want you regularly in an office.

(I am Head of Department in the Civil Service, my team are a mix of home and office based contractually).

Either way it has been advertised as a role which requires office working, it’s not a remote working role, it is “based” somewhere.

This isn't true either. We advertise our roles the same as the one OP has applied for (in fact I'm wondering if it's my branch of CS?!) by listing each office plus "flexible" if it's a role where home working would be considered.

Travel to one's contractual work location aka commute, cannot be expensed ever - it isn't an MoJ decision or variable, it's an across the board HMRC. Regulation.

MoJ is moving up to 50% in office next month. My contact in the MOJ says minimal flexibility on this since it vecame a political football (despite a push to reduce London estate long before Covid). You can ask but I doubt you will succeed. Much more likely to find more flexible contracts in the private sector, contrary to media stories.

''@PermanentTemporary
MoJ is moving up to 50% in office next month. My contact in the MOJ says minimal flexibility on this since it vecame a political football (despite a push to reduce London estate long before Covid). You can ask but I doubt you will succeed. Much more likely to find more flexible contracts in the private sector, contrary to media stories.''

Thank you for this! really useful insight.

Also to the couple of people who said why did I apply if I wanted remote working:

The wording on the job ad was something like 'the civil service usually operates an hybrid workplace' but that 'individual circumstances' would also be considered (to cover the to disabilities/reasonable adjustments angle I assumed) which is why I applied.

Frankly I would prefer if they made it clear from the start in the job ad that 50% office work will be required for this particular type of role and then a link to the offices in questions so people would not waste their time applying...

I noticed in the news this morning that another government department is apparently going to strike because of a force return to the office policy...

It’s still worth pursuing, though, because if an occ health assessment shows that you can do the job with a reasonable adjustment of homeworking, and it has no impact on the business, then that trumps a general policy. So you have nothing at all to lose by starting this negotiation.

MOJ has a vast estate, is it possible to ask if you could be based at a nearer office? I've heard MOJ tend to be one of the more pragmatic unlike HMRC for example. Also, if you have a health condition, you very likely will be in a good position to put in a reasonable adjustment request, but I'm not sure how it works when you need it from day 1, I would speak to your manager.

Wouldn't do. Normally if your job is based in an office, you're expected to pay the commute.
OP if the job said a variety of locations then you can choose from those locations and one of which may be a better commute than London so I'd ask what the options are before declining

Flexible doesn't mean exclusively wfh if the role requires an office presence. It would mean potentially you could negotiate a later start time to avoid the busiest trains, or which days you are in the office. I think urgent clarification is needed as to the logistics. Living too far from the job you chose to apply for isn't their problem remember. I'm really sympathetic to you having problems btw, I'm just trying to demonstrate how they might see it. Also them saying you can live anywhere means they allow you to decide if you want to travel. Talk to them, it might be fine

Depends on your role and illness you could be potentially designated home worker. But it really depends on business needs.

Ask if a remote worker role is possible.

I have people in my team who are based in Manchester, London and York - they were all employed during the pandemic but have now been given permanent contracts. They applied for home workers status and it was approved.

If you don’t ask you’ll never know.

I do a hybrid work pattern after many, many years of long commutes. My husband is 100% homework (due to health condition) but attends regional meeting about 4/5 times a year.

My BIL (London based) also does a hybrid work pattern.

We all work for different CS departments.

It doesn’t have to cost £50. I live outside London and book cheap advance tickets - works out about £8-20 a day depending on how organised I am. It means committing to specific trains and sometimes paying more to change plans but I save so much by doing this that it’s worth doing.