Written warning for sickness absence, just having a rant.

[BigBoysDontCry]

Nothing to be done really, just wanted to write it down to get it off my chest.

DS works for a well known supermarket. He's 24 has a very good degree but is autistic and struggles with communication so is therefore not managed to get a job related to his degree but is instead part time night shift shelf stacking. He hates it but is very diligent. He's been there about a year and a half. They know his difficulties.

In early December he broke his finger in an accident at work. Was initially signed off for 4 weeks and then a further 2 weeks as it was an awkward break, still very painful and unable to use his hand properly. He then went back on lighter duties for a few weeks and then back to his normal area which is a lot of heavy lifting. Given his difficulties, I mainly liaised with his boss (with DS permission) and attended his return to work meeting with him.

It can be hard arranging these conversations as the manager is also night shift.

Anyway there have been some issues with payroll in trying to see what he has been paid (docked the 2nd half of the shift when he broke his finger and was sent home which impressed me not) and the return of his holidays as he was booked to be off over Christmas and new year. They gave him the time off as the shifts were being covered by the staff employed as temps.

Roll forward to yesterday when I find out he had a disciplinary meeting in February over his absence as I saw the minutes. It took place at 2.30am which I suppose is fair as that's when he's at work. But he declined to have someone with him as he didn't think he could ask me since it was the middle of the night. Reading the minutes, he's been given an official written warning, not for his absence as such, but for letting down his colleagues at a busy time...🙄

He had 7 days to appeal which is long past now so nothing to be done really but I am fuming. At no point did the manager make me aware of this even though he knows about DS's difficulties and that he prefers to have me there.

Plus he was due to be on holiday anyway. Still awaiting a response from payroll 6 weeks since he emailed asking for a breakdown of his payslips.

I know he's an adult and it's up to him but for fucks sake.

Rant over.

What did the minutes actually say? And there would then have been a follow up letter stating the outcome of the disciplinary

That sounds quite shit.

If he usually has communication support as a reasonable adjustment, failing to make that RA in a disciplinary process is arguably unlawful disability discrimination. Although proving that is a different matter.

He’s been given a written warning for sickness absence after an accident at work?!! I’d be naming and shaming, OP – that’s pretty disgraceful.

Yes OP, that's dreadful. Name and shame

The letter just states that he's been given a written warning for sickness absence and details timescales that it will remain on his record. It's just a standard letter with his name added.

The minutes are pretty one sided with generally Yes or No answers from DS but specifically say that his absence was both from a witnessed accident and was certificated by a Dr (he was seen at hospital, twice) but imply that they feel he could have returned earlier with adjustments and specifically mention that the issue was that he was letting colleagues down at a busy time.

DS has twice agreed to be contacted by occupational health in regard to his diagnosis and specifically at his return to work interview (which I attended). I suggested that they contact him by email or text (details provided) as DS will not answer the phone. He's not been contacted.

He basically just needs to find another job imo but not as easy as it sounds.

If he's not already, I would really recommend he joins a union. They will be able to support him effectively in the workplace.

Hmm I'd want to know if there was proper health and safety around the accident. Had he had proper training, were procedures safe?

Is this all one absence? Surely he can't be on a disciplinary for one absence? Is the disciplinary for maybe not contacting work / no show / gross misconduct?

Name and shame. I have 20 years experience in this stuff, maybe I can help.

Thanks all, it's the major supermarket beginning with a T. I think I'm going to focus my energy and support on getting him out of there to be honest but I needed to just get it of my chest. I really appreciate your comments. ❤️

Ok, that's really shit. There is no legal defence to failing to make reasonable adjustments and it sounds like they've done it repeatedly.

New job probably is the main answer long term.

Also, consider contacting Acas for advice on this matter, maybe National Autistic Society if there's any employment support they could offer, and join a union for the future.

Access to Work might fund a PA for communication support - he could apply directly, not dependent on employer initiating.

This is not on. I'd be very surprised if the night shift manager had taken advice from HR before deciding to do this - have you seen the minutes, do you know whether there was an HR representative present?

Was a proper accident investigation carried out into his broken finger?

I agree with pp that if having you present has previously been considered a reasonable adjustment it is very wrong not to facilitate this. Additionally he should have been given written notice of the hearing in advance- was this done?

Acas is a very good resource, you could start here - www.acas.org.uk/disciplinary-procedure-step-by-step/step-4-the-disciplinary-hearing

How disappointing.

I hope you and he can get him somewhere that will treat him better than this.

One absence of 6 weeks. He has previously had I think one evening (maybe 2) off with D&V. I don't think he should be handling food in a supermarket with that.

He was sent home and I contacted his manager the next evening after he'd been to hospital but he wasn't due in until the following weekend anyway. There was a delay submitting his first sick note as his boss wouldn't give me the email address to send them.

I'm just disappointed too as his direct boss has been okay previously but DS isn't great at communicating with me either so I haven't yet got a straight answer as to whether he knew about the meeting in advance.

Thinking back he did seem more anxious than usual around that time.

I was helping him with clearing stuff out his room when I came across the minutes etc. He clearly had no intention of telling me and doesn't want me to do anything and he's now a grown man so despite my anger and frustration, my hands are tied.

Ah ok. So if he's had 3 periods of absence within a year then they are well within their rights to create a warning. It's shit, especially if one of the absences was for a work related accident but it's legal and happens all of the time.

Usually at 2 absences there would be an "investigation" and a (non formal / live) "warning" of "one more absence and you may be given a written warning".

Supermarkets are fairly cut throat about absence. It's not nice but absence cripples shops, means goods aren't on sale when needed, checkouts aren't open blah blah blah.

I agree that it's time to move on from T*o!!

He now has the minutes and there were names on it but I don't know who they are other than his boss.

I've no idea if there was an investigation but as far as I understand it was a genuine accident. DS was pulling a large heavy cage through the doors and caught his hand between the cage and the wall and got a complex fracture to the top joint of his finger. He still can't bend it properly and his grip is reduced and it's healed squint which is a frustration to his autistic sensibilities. 🙁

Not sure if it was 2 or 3 tbh and possibly not within a year either but yes the policy is shit.

They've repeatedly fed back that he's a hard worker and does one of the heaviest areas they have. He was initially a Christmas temp from 2022 that they kept on as he's reliable and hard working. He's never late and generally is healthy. Virtually no school absence or uni either but then half that was during covid so was spent in his bedroom.

I was a bit pissed off with docking the half shift he missed when he broke his finger.

The previous meetings I attended were at 10.30/11pm at night, one in person and another on the phone. Not ideal for me as I start work at 8am but I totally understand that I need to fit in with the managers shift pattern. I think we had another call early one morning when he'd finished shift and was out walking his dog.

Was the finger accident during a probationary type period? Of sick pay wasn't yet a benefit then yeah, they can unpay for any sickness type absence. If it's only 2 absences in a year then the warning isn't policy / procedure. If it's 3 then it's "fair", for want of a better word.

As I said, supermarket absence is cut throat, I've known people to be put on warnings for chronic or life threatening illnesses.

Most retail jobs I have been in it's like '3 strikes' then formal 'investigation' & disciplinary. Purely down to how much work/ shifts you've missed

No probation, he'd been there over a year by the time of his accident. I know there is period without sick pay but he was entitled to some and some statutory sick pay but looking at his payslips it's impossible to work out what he's been paid for when which is why we've asked for clarification. It was really because his holidays should have been recredited to his account for him to take and weren't. The holiday deadline was end March and it wasn't clear what he still had to take and he never asked for them to be paid.

He's more interested in having the time off than the money since he never spends any...

My suspicion is that since they paid him the holidays then technically he was "at work" during his 6 weeks off and it's therefore been treated as two absences if that makes sense?

I only know he was docked as his hours worked were an odd amount instead of his normal 8 hour shifts. One of them was only 4.5 hours which would coincide with him arriving home in the middle of the night.

Disability is a protected characteristic and it appears that they are on very thin ground. No limit to compensation either for unfair dismissal even before 2 years in employment.

write a timeline and gather proof that the manager knew of your sons disability, and watch them retract the written warning in lightning speed.

My friend broke a finger working in a supermarket and got quite a handsome payout. There’s plenty of time to make a claim for compensation. Might as well benefit from it.

It was shit of them if they are aware he needs communication support to do a 2am disciplinary hearing and it could be challenged on that basis of
your advocacy has been formally agreed with management. You could also potentially challenge the 7 day response thing as but given your son has a good degree that might be harder to claim. He clearly has analytical skills so should know what that meant.

Thanks again all. I really can't do anything unless he wants to. I am always happy to support him and attend things with him but I don't like to overide his own wishes, I'd love him to be more independent but it's a slow process. He also receives disability benefits which as you know set a fairly high benchmark so it's not that his autism is not impactful.

I just need to pin him down to being more engaged with looking for jobs again. He missed a first class honours in computer science by a couple of points so is a clever lad, he just needs the right employer. But obviously the whole thing just makes him anxious even though he can have appropriate accommodation put in place.

But as I keep saying, the job he is doing is also making him anxious so at least he could be anxious and earning enough for his own place, potentially working from home, having better opportunities to meet like minded friends etc.

It's made me more determined to get him sorted. I'm reluctant for him to just give this job up as it gives him some work history and gets him contributing to society and out his room for a while. He does 2 shifts but being night-shift it impacts about 4 days.