Leave the NHS for more money but fewer benefits.

[Itsaplanejane]

I'm currently top band 7 so on 50k a year.
I have been offered a job in the charity sector on 70k a year

I have over 10 years service with the NHS so 33 days AL a year plus bank holidays. I don't work unsociable hours. My manager is incredibly supportive and I have a fantastic flexible working set up that means we have been able to reduce our childcare needs considerably as I can still pick up and drop off my little one from school. I do love my job but it does definitely get frustrating at times like any job in the private sector with all the politics and the chronic underfunding of the NHS to contend with.
My manager is lovely and supportive and so are the team I work with for the most part.
I can apply for a band 8a but I'm very reluctant too because the pay difference will be neglige for 5 years with how Agenda for Change works so all that extra responsibility for nothing.
I pay a fortune into my pension each month but the hope of course then that I will have a good pension when the time comes. DH is self employed and has a pension but will be peanuts compared to mine so this is important to me.

I had an interview for an equivalent job in the charity sector. They don't come up often at all and I sent in an application on a bit of a whim. I've been offered the job.
The job is based in London but I'd only need to be in the office 2 days a week, work from home the rest. The commute to the office would be 2 hours so I'd need to arrange getting my kid to and from school through other means. DH might be able to adjust his work so he can do this. They have said they're happy for me to do pick ups and drops off around work the days I work from home.
I would have 27 days annual leave plus bank holiday.
Sick pay is statutory rather than the 6 months full pay, 6 months half I currently have with the NHS.
I'd pay a lot less into my pension so my take home would be even higher but obviously my pension would not be as good so I'd need to ensure I set up a private pension as well.

I've also never not worked in the NHS and that worries me to be honest. The odds of redundancy are extremely slim in my current role but if it did happen I'd have a years salary pay out and could very easily get another job as my background is clinical nursing so getting another job would not be a problem. That is of course true if I took this job, if it doesn't work out I could easily return to the NHS but I'd have lost all the benefits of having over 10 years service and would need to start all over again.

Is it worth it for the extra money? It seems like so much money but once I pay for commuting costs, potentially some wrap around childcare, pension how much realistically will be left over. Plus I really do love my current job.

I'm really not sure. They've given me the weekend to decide. Please help!

When I did the maths for a similar move, it came out that I would need to just about double my existing salary to make up for the difference between (good, 12% employer contribution) DC pension and DB pension.

It’s worth finding a pensions expert and asking them to do the sums, it’s really complicated and not clear what are sensible assumptions to make.

I also think that £250 extra per month should be put towards your pension, so you'd probably just end up where you are now but with lots of time eaten up by commuting.

Look carefully at the pension, not just what you pay in but also what the NHS as your employer pays in.

In a defined benefit pension such as the NHS, what the employer pays is absolutely meaningless. The only calculation needed is that, for every year OP is employed, she accrues 1/54th of her salary as a future pension. So for every year employed, OP will add another guaranteed £926 (plus inflation) into her annual pension payment.

The amount OP and her new employer would have to pay into a defined contribution pension pot to obtain that return, would be astronomical.

Op I went from an 8a to an 8b a couple of years ago and took home an extra £50 or something similar a month so I do know what you mean regarding extra responsibility for very little extra pay. I took have to wait another 3 years to get a reasonable pay rise. It's bonkers!

But for me the pension, annual leave, sick and redundancy pay make up for this. In the current cost of living crisis if I get made redundant I have over a year's pay. To me that is worth a lot.

It's hard sometimes to know what decision to make. But think about things in 5 years time - where would you like to be?

Good luck!

Unless the pension offered is a DB scheme (it's more likely a DC scheme) and unless you have high potential to increase future earnings in the new role, i don't think it's worth it.

You will lose out on meaningful pension and benefits for a marginal monthly increase in take home pay,

The NHS pension is one of the best. I read that a Dr in the NHS at the end of service has a pension of approximately 60k. The private sector is nowhere nearly as generous.

I know someone that worked for a charity after working for local government in a school (secretary role). She’s back in the school environment and like you her husband is self employed, so at least she’ll have a decent pension upon retirement.

It would be a no from me especially for an extra £250 which is reality won’t be ….. factor in lunch and a coffee too. I wouldn’t give up your current flexibility!

Doctors aren’t on the NHS pension scheme.

I've lost count of the number of friends and colleagues who've left and come back again.

Ex NHS band 9 here, and also a charity trustee. With my experience of both sectors I’d say stay in NHS. Charity sector pay and conditions are inadequate and I personally wouldn’t take that jump away from the security of nhs t&cs.

I would urge you to go for the 8a. Then check out the competencies/skills etc for 8b and then work with your manager to create a personal development plan that helps you get broader experience. This might mean working outside your remit for a while and you may want to extend your expertise into other areas so you are not limited to the safeguarding arena.

You should fine that you would be appointable to an 8b within a couple of years.

I also think a change of govt will have a huge impact in NHS and it’s worth sticking around for that.

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all of your input and advice. I've spoken about it a lot with DH and family today too and discussed a lot of the issues you have all pointed out. I won't give my answer until Monday (no point, they're closed) but I'm 99% sure I'm going to turn it down. Flattering to be offered but you're right. I was seduced by what looked like a 20k pay rise but when you add it all up, it still can't really compete with what I have now at a time in my life when stability and flexibility are what matter most.
I really do appreciate all your advice! Thank you!

Agree with others , unless you’re struggling with money or hate your job I see no benefit from these 20k extra. Less days in hols that you’ll need to find childcare for. Less flexibility for school. And 4h a day in commuting even 2 days a week you’re going to be drained and probably might affect your day to day (I go once a week to the office 1h a week and I end up really drained).

Have just left the charity sector for the nhs. You need to look at employer pension contributions - it is likely the charity will be paying 6% while the nhs pays 20%. Based on the figures supplied you would need to be paying in an extra £666 per month to match your current pension contribution.

there are no annual pay rises in most charities, so you may not increase your income for years and might end up regretting following the banding system in the nhs

i think it sounds like you could do with a change, but this is not it

I went from public sector to charity sector (not particularly through choice, redundancy on maternity leave then SAHP for a while).

I wouldn't swap the security you have in the NHS for a move to the charity sector based on a payrise like that.

It's horrible waiting for funding to be secured and trying to work out if you'll still have a job after March and if you're overpaid (not for your value but for your sector, which it sounds like you are as there are so few of these roles out there at that salary) then you will be a target for being let go.

Remember as well as your 10 years service you are letting go of your 2 year employment rights.

I also found that there is a lot of expectation of doing unpaid overtime at events at weekends etc which eats into your holiday time. IME if you have many volunteers in your organisation you will be looked upon unfavourably if you don't want to do this. Plus you'll be expected to climb up the side of the O2 or whatever.

I'm self employed now and prefer it to the charity sector. I have good insurance in case of ill health and I get paid for every hour I work.

I have always worked in the NHS, over 20 years so I get the caution at leaving it with all the benefits and job security. Tbh though you have a very rare thing, a job that you love with no arseholes to deal with. A very rare thing in the NHS!! I love my job, but I have a couple of arseholes and seriously, dealing with them is enough to make me want another job, causes far too much stress.

But in all honesty £250 extra after you have accounted for everything is not enough to make all of those changes, well it would not be for me. And 4 hours of commuting even only twice a week would be too much for me!

You need to look at employer pension contributions - it is likely the charity will be paying 6% while the nhs pays 20%.

No, you really, really don’t!!! 🤦🏼‍♀️

Employer contribution rates are meaningless and arbitrary in relation to defined benefit pensions!

So because the NHS pension is a DB, the employer contribution doesn’t go into my pot? Where does it go?

There isn't a pot as such for DB schemes, that's the point - it's defined benefit. It's guaranteed in a way that DC pensions aren't.

It goes to pay the current NHS pensioners mostly, the rest is invested in a fund.

Your own contributions are also arbitrary. They don’t go into a pot either.

All you need to know is that every year, you accrue 1/54th of that year’s salary (plus inflation), as your annual pension.

Let’s say you earned £54,000 for ten years. You’d accrue £1,000 per year to give a guaranteed annual pension of £10,000.

Defined benefit scheme are truly fantastic.

Thank you @Pink3849

In a year, say, I contribute towards my pension roughly £350/month. Which is £4,200 a year. 1/54 out of 35,400 is £655.
So, I put in £4200 and get £655. I should bloody hope that’s guaranteed.
I think I must be missing something?

Well, two ways to look at it - see what a yearly contribution of £4,200 would get you in terms of a defined contribution pension / see what you would have to contribute in a year to get a defined contribution income of £655 a year (obviously with additional inflation).

A third way to look at it. You have paid £4,200 to get £655 a year for… 10-20 years say?!

Makes total sense @Pink3849 thank you.

I think while children are young the long commute 2 days/week would be a nightmare.

Plus you lose 6 days holiday. You currently get around 8 weeks which covers lots of school hols. Would you need to pay for holiday clubs for the days you're working away in London?

By the time you have lost child benefit, paid for commute, more tax, extra child care, extra into pension, factored in lack of sick pay etc I don't think you will be any better off.

Haven't read all the replies so someone may have already said this, but please do also factor in the stability the NHS offers. Difficult time at the minute for the charity sector (Cost of living crisis, inflation etc) so the new role may come with a lot less stability than you're used to. I moved from NHS to third sector and it's been a case of constant reorganisations/redundancies every couple of years. Just something to bear in mind!