Does raising a grievance ever achieve anything positive for the employee

[Snowchoc]

My son has raised one against a bullying boss. Son has no protected characteristics, but (from the one sided version I've heard) the boss does seem awful. I've also seen text messages she's sent him, sometimes up to 30 a day on his day off. I don't expect he's been perfect, but her behaviour does seem odd.

Anyway my advice, which he ignored, was that HR work for the company, not the employees, and really the best thing he could do was look for another job if he couldn't work with her.

He was determined she should get her comeuppance and put together a detailed grievance. He followed the policy and did a good his of the letter IMO, although I obviously don't know for sure if it was factual.

They took 11 weeks to respond, well outside of their own process and the investigation seems to have consisted of asking her about the allegations which she's denied. He gave dates, times and witnesses but they haven't followed up on any of that.

He's been moved to another branch, with a much longer commute and whilst they suggested there might be some money to compensate, that hasn't been forthcoming.

He's currently applying for other jobs, but is the lesson that there's never anything to be gained from using the grievance policy?

No one?

I won a grievance against my employer for incorrect annual leave payment. I think for things like this where there are clear rules and laws, grievances can be useful. For bullying it can be difficult to prove and often isn't taken seriously.

He can use the appeal process on grounds the investigation was flawed as his witnesses were not interviewed.

It isn't that grievances are pointless, but that that org's grievance procedure was appallingly managed.

Contact ACAS. They have been extremely helpful in this process to a member of my family. Also get a free session with a solicitor.

What outcome did he expect? The manager to be sacked? That's not going to happen.

Nothing good comes out of HR. Your advice was correct. Find another job and move is always my advice

Sounds like he’s being managed out. No I don’t think anything good comes from HR / grievance procedure other than learning what red flags to avoid in the next job. For me, the next job was better money and hours. Which pissed off the HR department in the company I left - as people suddenly realised they could get better pay and conditions quite easily.

I don't entirely agree. HR are there for the employer? Of course they are, the employer pays the bills. Managers get sacked for wrongdoing? Rarely.

You want someone on your side - join a union. You want to "win" ( not the same thing as getting the manager sacked) - make sure you have incontrovertible evidence that has legal standing.

Yes, I've won grievances for myself and others. Yes it was worth it because you can't roll over and die every time. And you can't pack in the job every time either. But you protect yourself. He didn't. And your advice doesn't either. You can't ever guarantee. you'll win. Unions aren't magic fairies either. But act like a doormat and that's how you'll be treated. Your sons mistake want in his approach - it was in trusting the system without support or evidence.

I have investigated and upheld grievances. In some cases, disciplinary proceedings were initiated afterwards. In others policies were reviewed. It's not as simple as "HR works for the company" (though I don't work in HR!). But often it doesn't do anything other than spin out a tortuous and miserable process when the employee would be better off looking for another job.
For what it's worth, I've investigated grievances that were at best misconceived and at worst malicious. It goes both ways.

He did have a lot of evidence, including witnesses and some in writing, but they didn't investigate any of it.

He could appeal on that basis, but I'm not sure what's to be gained from it. I agree he's being managed out, I'm not sure if that's actually because he's rubbish or because he challenged incompetent bosses, not that it really matters.

He should appeal the decision I think. It’s already cost him really badly - he should pursue it now. Is there a second level of complaint to go through? What’s the policy?

30 text messages a day on his day off is harassment.

Having read up on these things, it's only harassment if it's because of a protected characteristic. Otherwise it's bullying, which is what his complaint was.

That really depends on why they were sent and what they say. "Where are the safe keys", " we need the safe keys" "you have the safe keys", " why aren't you answering?"....

And actually there is no law against "harassment" - as a legal concept it is good to a discrimination, and there's no evidence of discrimination being suggested.

They were critisms of his work, or instructions for things that needed doing, which may or may not have been justified, but nothing that should be dealt with on his day off.

You are correct. And unfortunately there is also no law against bullying. There perhaps ought to be, but there isn't. It might be caught under other laws, depending on context, but not specifically.

Totally disagree - depends on the company and person / people!!

I head up HR at my company (amongst other roles) a few weeks back we had someone claim
bullying against a manager.

I carried out a thorough investigation and following the findings sacked him - he’d worked for the business for 38 years versus the person who originally complained who had worked there for less than 6 months….. but 7 witnesses all stated bullying so 🤷🏽‍♀️

He should do it to make the company aware of her antics if he is looking for another job anyway he might as well stick it to her.

It's people who don't say a peep who let bullies get away with things.

30 messages on your day off is absolutely insane

At best, bad form though. Why are they using his personal phone number? He shouldn't have given it for this. One lesson to learn... if your employer wants to discuss things via phone, provide the phone. You switch it off on days off.

Not against the law, but it is against their dignity at work policy, which they don't seem interested in employing. Really big company too.

So you head HR. You recived a complaint and you investigated it. You then found him guilty and sacked him. I sooo see the tribunal claim coming. Judge, jury and executioner?

Yes they do but it depends what they are raised for. It rare to see success with regards to bullying as it’s so hard to prove.

It's subjective though.

Yeah, everyone had one of those policies. Some employers even know were they last left it. Employers policies have no bearing of there isn't a case at law. And that's his problem... there isn't obviously a case at law.

30 non critical texts on your day off is subjective? And not just once either. Plus loads of outright verbal abuse, with witnesses prepared to give evidence, if anything was followed up?

No I’m pretty sure employees have a right to work without harassment regardless if protected characteristics. It’s not an equality act case maybe but it’s a case - there is no way this is acceptable.