Flexible working request rejected - help me with appeal please

[Hope1987]

Hi everyone,
I hope to get some help with appeal here. I will try to describe my situation and hopefully it won't be too long 🙂.
I am on annual leave after ML now and in October after informal chat with my manager regarding my coming back on 3 days a week instead of 5 I've got a green light from to apply but he said that despite he's ok with my new working pattern it's HR decision. So I've put my application form on 16/10 and then had a meeting on 20/10. I didn't hear anything from other than they are discussing my case until 23/11 which was outside 14 days to arrange another meeting which was 2 weeks after that. And then I've heard flat no,they didn't give any alternatives, any option, nothing. As the reasons they gave that they can't reorganise work amongst existing staff and that my position works in line with Packaging department that's why they need to have covered shifts 6-2, 2-10 and 9-5, otherwise it will have detrimental effect on performance and and fulfilling customer demand.
The only ground to appeal in my heads are that during my ML they didn't employ any cover for my position, so actual my coming back to work, even on reduced hours will increase capacity of the team, not put any more pressure or extra tasks as they had to work a full year without me. Also packaging department works on 2 shift basis which are covered by my 2 colleagues. There is no one in my team on 9-5 from at leat 2.5 years.
But I not really sure if I could use all these in my appeal as this sounds a bit like they don't need me at all in my department.
I would appreciated any advice. Thank you

How long was your ml?

If you want to work 3 days why can't they employ someone for the other 2 days? That's what would happen in my workplace

A full year

A full year

They've done almost 200 people redundant from mine and few others department in May, so they are not allowed to get any new people now and that's was of the reason in my refusal letter why they need me full time.

There is a danger they decide that your role is no longer needed - I agree its a tricky one...

Maybe they are trying to force you out because, as you’ve said, they’ve proven they don’t need you over this past year yet legally they have to keep your job open.

I would definitely appeal citing the reasons you’ve said above, I couldn’t see them winning in court if I’m honest as they would have to prove their reasons and from what you’ve said it doesn’t sound like they can.

DiL had her request to work four days a week refused after ML. The week after she went back to work full time, everyone on less than full time was made redundant. I don’t think there is much you can do about their decision unless you are in a union and can take advice from them? Having just re-read all of your posts I think they are trying to tell you that if you don’t go back full time you will be redundant.

Is that legal? Just making part-time staff redundant?

That was what I was thinking. After a year they need only offer back an equivalent role to the one you left - same level, terms, hours, pay etc. If they have made redundancies they may have kept someone on who might otherwise have been made redundant or redistributed your workload rather than take on cover.

To be honest it wouldn't be bad if they would make me redundant 🙂 at least I would get some money for being there almost 14 years. This company is literally a joke. They made people redundant in May and from that time lots of other people are leaving each month. Now they are complaining that they don't have enough people to work 😅.
Mostly I am trying to use my appeal to give them alternative. I would like to offer coming back to work on half day Monday and Tuesday and full day for the rest of the working week and just for temporary time which would give me some time to arrange better childcare.
But anyway probably I would need to challenge their grounds for giving me refusal. And that's all what coming to my head. I don't care about redundancy, I am worrying more that they will move me somewhere else.

If I'm being honest, I don't like it, but they appear to be playing a blinder. They have given business reasons for the refusal. No employment tribunal will dispute an employers business reasons - nobody but an employer can judge their own business reasons.

My guess is that they don't want you back and don't want to pay redundancy pay. And if you can't overturn the decision with the employer, are you in a position to return to call their bluff- because I think they are betting on you not being able to do that.

Because I can tell you now what their defence to any claim will be - "hi judges, but you can't tell us how to run our business so what we say we need is what we need; but then poor us are struggling financially so we couldn't afford to replace Hope1987 even though we desperately needed to, but look at all the people we had to make redundant so you can see why there was no maternity cover and we were just SOOOO happy when she was able to come back..."

You can't call their bluff and you walk away with nothing. You call their bluff and probably can't sustain it, you walk away with nothing. You go to tribunal, you'll probably lose, so worst case scenario is they pay you LESS than the redundancy payment to go away because that's probably the best offer you'll get.

I hope you are are in a union. That's no guarantee of anything because the law probably isn't on your side here, but if there's a way through, it'll take union resources to find it; or to scare the employer enough to back off.

Sorry. Wish I could be more optimistic, but I don't see this ending well UNLESS they accept your appeal - which won't be on legal grounds, but on the basis that you get a more sympathetic hearing.

"No employment tribunal will dispute an employers business reasons - nobody but an employer can judge their own business reasons."

They wouldn't question it, but the employer would have to provide some evidence to back the reasons up if it got to an ET. Otherwise all an employer would have to do is say "because of x business reason" without any comeback.

Op have they given you any info to support their reasoning? E.g. stats that show work has increased or they are reducing overtime (if that's how they covered your role) etc?

Have you asked if they'd consider job share if a partner could be found?

There's no reason they can't hire new people when the redundancies were in may. It's long enough for business needs to change and there is no legal timeframe. So this isn't a genuine reason.

They also could have included your role in redundancy regardless of your ML - do you know what roles where at risk, are there other people that do the same job as you that were at risk and made redundant? Because if they were then you should have been included too, and if you weren't included it's prob because you'd be expensive to exit - depends on what your contract says.

Usually though a flat no is because they would rather you leave, so check out above re the redundancy process incase you should have been part of the at risk group.

Have you spoken to Pregnant Then Screwed about it all? They have a useful helpline that gave me some good advice last year. You have to keep ringing if they can't answer but they're really good when you get hold of someone. https://pregnantthenscrewed.com/

I am not planning to go to Tribunal. My last step will finish on appeal at work which I don't really have much hope that will help me. Just trying to write the appealing letter which is not easy because I am not really creative and English is not my first language🙄. But I want to do everything what I can. And I was just wonder if I can point out that they didn't even try to find cover for my position when I left at the beginning of December last year or that will to much. But otherwise I don't have any other ideas 😐

Don't word it that way. Your job is to show them why it benefits them. So you are proposing to save them money. Plus being more efficient. Sell what is good for them.

Could 5 short days work rather than only 3 days e.g. 9:30 -2:30?
Nursery might offer a reduced rate for a 9 o clock drop off and 3 o clock pick up and if you stay there you will be all set ready for school hours.

No they really wouldn't have to provide that evidence. They have given business reasons. "Evidence" is "commercial interests" and they don't have to provide it. They really do only have to state the business reason - they don't have to prove it. I agree is not fair, but the law isn't fair. And it doesn't favour the employee.

I doubt they are obliged to give u reduced hours if it is not convenient for them. I was part time a year ago then when a member of team.went on maternity leave , in three new term had to go back to full time as vlasses needed a teacher

They wouldn't let me do it this way for sure as I am a shift worker unfortunately.

I know that they are not obligated to let me work reduced hours but as I spoke with my friend who works in the same company she knows many people who applied before for a part time and always they were giving them some alternatives. I've only got flat "no". I am not holding much hope that my appeal will change anything to be honest.

OK thank you. It is so hard for me to find right wording. I am terrible at that 🤯

Agree with PP you need to say why it’s good for the business.

I wrote an appeal letter and employer agreed in the end to allow my request on a trial basis. Which ended up staying.

I got my FIL to help write the letter in a professional tone. It was a mix of saying why it was good for the company and some more threatening stuff sandwiched in between!