flowery, or anyone please help, when handing notice from mat leave, my company say your employment is terminated from when they are informed you are not planning on returning.

[unsurepleasehelp]

flowery or anyone, Hi MN regular, name changed.
im due to return to work next month, i do not want to return. just ben going though my maternity information from my company with regard to handing in my notice,

my contract states i must give two weeks notice.

the maternity information states, your last date of employment will be either

1.the date you informed us of your intention to resign
2.the date we received your undated notice of resignation

1. the date of termination of your employment, if we haven't been able to contact you or heard from you

the problem is i get a bonus on friday the 18th of april [this bonus is quite large]
and im due to return to work on monday the 21st of april.

so what im trying to figure out is, if i give them two weeks notice, say on the 7th of april, will my employment be terminated on the 7th, therefore maning i won't get my bonus on the 18th?

id really really appriciate any help,
as i can't afford to miss out on this bonus.

id really really appriciate any help

unsure this is very unusual, it would be normal to have to give your usual contractual notice, and your last date of employment would normally be at the end of your notice period iyswim. I've never come across this before where they consider your last date of employment to be the day you hand in your notice in the event you are on maternity leave.

It seems strange as it seems to disadvantage the employer - they could (and should) be working on the assumption you are coming back to work and you could just literally tell them on the day you're due back that you're not coming. Very strange.

I think to safeguard your bonus you are best to do exactly as it says in your maternity policy, hand in your notice literally on the last day you want to be employed, probably the Friday 18th. Is the bonus due to actually go into your bank account that day? What I'd probably do is check with your bank that it's arrived, then telephone your manager and say you are giving notice and a letter (or email) is in the post or on the way, the maternity policy states that in the event of handing in notice while on maternity leave the last date of employment will be the date notice is handed in, so your last date of employment will be Friday 18th April (or whatever date you do it), and you look forward to receiving your P45 and last payslip accordingly.

It's a very strange policy though, can't think why they'd want to do that!

Do you annual leave accrued, or have you already taken it? Could you take a few weeks holiday at the end of your leave (ie from 21st April onwards) and hand your notice in once you have the bonus?

But if OP hands in her notice on 18th when sure the bonus is in the bag (or bank!) won't she have to work the two weeks notice period?
If it were me, and the bonus was that considerable, I'd bag the bonus, muddle through for two weeks, then splurge the two weeks wages on a nice spring short break.

In theory, the two weeks' notice does apply, but you can't make someone work it. Plus, the notice contradicts the maternity policy.

Unsure - I presume that your company won't collapse without you in a fortnight (unlikely, since you haven't been there for x months). That's the only time you really have to worry about breaching your contractual notice.

I'd do what Flowery says.

hi, thank you so much for your replies,

flowery and others, do you think that what it says in the maternity details

1.the date you informed us of your intention to resign

does actually mean,what i think it means, that the day you hand your notice in, is th day or employment ends?

im sure my line manager said to me before leaving, as we also get staff discount, make your your do not hand your notice in early as we take your notice from when you hand it in, so you won't be able to get staff discount once you've handed your notice in.
but mow im wondering if i remembered what she said properly.

do you think that

as it says in the maternity details,
your last date of employment will be either

1.the date you informed us of your intention to resign

this means what i think it means ?
that the day i hand my notice in, is the day my employment ends?

oh sory for got to say, yes the bonus will go into my banck aacount on the 18th. and yes it would be a bit of a pain if i just didnt turn up at work, but not in the way it would really cause too many problems iyswim?

thank you sooooooo much for helping me

unsure I think you can take the policy literally, if it says that it means that they will end your employment on that day.

As Ribena says, your contract would take precedence if it came to it, but there's no way they could force you to work those two weeks, and, given the bonus situation, it's best to follow the (unsual) maternity policy and hand in your notice on what you want the last day of your employment to be.

Blimey, I wish I'd known in my past lives that I couldn't be forced to work my notice!
Would've saved me a lot of angst.

You don't work at John Lewis by any chance? Let me borrow your staff discount before you resign.

not jl, but another large retailer yes

thankyou flowery, i really appreciate your help, do you think its worth me calling head office on monday and asking them to clarify at all? if i do im not sure how to word it ?

would i lose holiday pay if i don;t work my notice? if i do id rather forfit holiday pay as bonus will be larger?

bran i don't think they'd let me take hols straight after mat leave. be i can see that would be a good plan.

I probably wouldn't bother ringing. The policy is fairly clear, it says the last day of employment will be the day you inform of your intention to resign. It may be just a spectacularly badly worded policy, but that's what it says, and I think where there is a bonus to be considered, plus you are on maternity leave anyway - ie it's not as if you are walking out of work - your best bet is to just hand in notice when you want to leave.

You won't lose any holiday pay, no. You will have accrued holiday during your maternity leave and if the intention was for you to take it at some point after you get back, they should pay you for it instead.

mouselady, it is pretty impossible to force someone to work their notice, that's right - unless you are going to frog-march someone to their office and lock them in for a month or whatever. If you don't work the notice that's required of you, that's a breach of contract, which technically your employer could sue you for, but in practice it's virtually never worth doing that.

In unsure's case, there is documentation indicating that no notice is required, although there is also documentation indicating that notice is required. As she is on maternity leave anyway, there is a bonus at stake and the information saying no notice required is specifically for employees on maternity leave, my opinion is her best option is not to work her notice. Chances are it would be more problematic for her employer to accommodate her coming back to work for a fortnight anyway, so there is virtually nil chance of them making any fuss about it, and if they do, she has a policy to point them at.

In normal circumstances, when someone's just fed up and wants to leave, I wouldn't advise not working notice unless it's absolutely unbearable. You would be walking out and leaving your employer in the lurch, you would be burning your boats, in terms of working for or with that employer again, and probably more importantly, you would be jeopardising your reference.

But absolutely, there's very little an employer can do if you just walk out of a job.

hi, flowery thank you so much for helping me, i really really hope one day ill be able to help or support you in someway, i think your right, as i really honestly cannot afford to lose this bonus, but im worried work are going to start to contact me, and start calling me asking if im coming back etc, im friendlyish with my line manager who occasionaly texts me, what would you do in my situation, if they where ringing you asking if you where going back etc?

if my boss was to ring me and i said i wasnt returning can they can my notice verbally or would it have to be writen, ie could i f@@@ up by letting it slip?

my dh said just to not answer the phone, id hate to do something like that but i need the money for my lo

also flowery, im sure you know far, far more than me just i thought when someone i know left before working her notice, they didn't give her, her holiday pay. although i could be wrong, as i often am.

tbth im actually feeling sick about all this.

unsure I don't know what happened with the other person, but as long as you have accrued holiday during this holiday year and it's there for you and you were going to take it at some point after you returned from maternity leave, they can't just suddenly decide not to pay you it.

I think regardless of what happened to the other person who left without working notice, you are in a very strong position because the maternity policy actually says specifically that your leaving date will be the minute you tell them you're leaving. I really think you'll be fine doing that.

I know it's hard, but I think to be absolutely sure, given what it says in the maternity policy, your best bet is either not to answer the phone, or to lie and say you are coming back. Probably easier not to answer I would imagine.

I very much doubt they could get away with not paying you the bonus anyway, but I haven't seen the terms and conditions of your bonus scheme, and either way, even if you would be still entitled to it, it's much easier if you don't have to fight for something you're owed.

What you could do if you get on with your manager is apologise for not being more upfront when you do hand your notice in - I'm sure he/she will understand your concerns about your bonus especially given the wording of the maternity policy and won't be angry at all.

hi flowery, ive i cannot thank you enough for all your help, i had a bit of sleepness night worrying about it all, which i know is crazy, esp as im not going back, and have no intention of going back there in the future.

i think you are right, and my dh has said we really need this money, so i guess i will wait till its in the bank before i hand my notice in, i really wish there maternity policy wasnt that way.

if i don't pick up the phone or reply to any messages, and then i hand my notice in after, could i say oh i sent my resignation through the post, did you not recieve it? and make out i was away when they where calling me although i don't know what excuse to use about my mobile, and that i thought they had recieved my notice in the post? or would they say somthing like, well when did you send it to us and say well we are detucting your bonus in that case,as you sent it to us on the x date we just didn't recieve it,so you owe us x amount of money?

thats good news about the holiday pay.

also lastly i have thought about telling my line manager who is also a sort of friend, on a confidental friend to friend basis, what im planing on doing,as the thought of sneaking about is making me feel so bad, but i don't know if thats just gonna put her in a v awkward situation at work when her boss starts asking her whats happening with me. and im not sure if thats just off loading my bad feeling onto her, so i don't have to feel so bad.

im so sorry to go on, but i honestly cannot thankyou enough, i just feel terrible about all this, i really have no idea why they what there policy to be that the minute you hand your notice in thats when your employment ends with them.

dh keeps reminding me about how horid they where to me, when i was PG, making it v v difficult to even go to midwife appointments etc.

unsure I think your best bet if they ask you why you're not giving any notice is to say that the maternity policy said that your last date of employment would be the day you handed your notice in. I don't think you need to make excuses - that's what the policy says, and if it said to give two weeks notice, you would have done.

I think you shouldn't tell your manager yet. I think you have realised, rightly, that you would just be doing that to make yourself feel better and less guilty, but that's not fair on her and would put her in an awkward position. I would say have a chat with her once you've handed your notice in, or on the day you do it, apologise for not letting her know but say you were concerned about the policy and concerned about your bonus and didn't want to put her in a difficult position. I'm sure she will understand.

hi, flowery, thankyou so much for your help, i totally agree about not telling my line manager, until after as its unfair and would just be a case of off loading it onto her.

well i phoned HR at H.O this am, they told me that, it doesn't mean that the last day of employment, is the day you hand your notice it means its the day you tell them is your last day of employment, and thats why it says,
2.the date we received your undated notice of resignation
for option two

i can kind of understand that, if it ment as soon as you inform them you intend to resign, thats it employment terminated.there would be no reason to state option 2 as it wouldn't matter if it was dated or not.
maybe its just crap wording on the matrnity details

only trouble is, its sorta like a call center so im now worring, that they don't know what they talking about.

i would of thought the wording be clearer if it said something like..

1. the date stated in your resignation as your last date of employment.

well ive taken the full name of the person, i spoke to at HR and the time and the date
i dont know if that would help me at all?

sorry to pester you about all this.

unsure it is very badly worded, but as it would be very unsual and you have now been told differently by someone in HR, I think you should now give notice.

I would write to your boss, and copy in whoever in HR would be appropriate, I don't know if you have an HR person who looks after your region or anything.

I would say

'I am writing to give notice that I do not intend to return to work after my maternity leave. According to the maternity policy, the last date of employment would be the date notice is handed in, however this conflicts with my contract of employment, and, having checked with [name of person]in HR on [date], I understand that I am in fact required to give the notice specified in my contract as normal.

Please take today's date [then put date] as two weeks' notice, my last date of employment will be Friday 18th April (or whatever).

I understand all my terms and conditions will remain in place until that date. I have accrued [number of days if you know it] days annual leave which I have not taken, I understand these should be paid to me with my final salary payment.

I would appreciate written acknowledgement of this notice of termination and confirmation of holiday pay and any other leaving arrangements.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for all your support during my employment blah blah blah...'

That's quite a formal letter, so I would give your manager a ring before you send it, just letting her know you will be leaving with effect from 18th April or whatever date, and will be sending written formal notice as well.

I'd send it by email and put a written copy in the post as well.

Flowery - you are the expert on this stuff but I was just wondering as where I used to work the bonus policy said something like "no bonus will be paid if the person is under notice" or something like that - so maybe the OP ought to check the bonus policy before handing in notice. I only remember this as I had to wait till I was paid my bonus before I could hand in my notice - there was always a spate of people giving notice as soon as bonuses were paid!

I might be talking rubbish anyway but thought I'd mention it.

Absolutely maisy, that may be the case with unsure's scheme, but as she was hoping to leave on the date the bonus is paid and the maternity policy seemed to indicate that no notice was required, I thought the best bet would be to take that literally and do so once the bonus is in the bank.

Now she's spoken to someone from HR it's clear she does need to give notice, hopefully she'll still get the bonus but it does depend on the terms of her scheme, absolutely right.

i flowery, thank you so much for your very helpful responses, think im going to just give notice as i will also be much less stressed, if i do this.

my contract says i need to give 2 weeks but the maternity info says, 4 weeks, but i think my contract is very out of date as it says my main place of work is a different store that i havent worked in for about 6 years

really hope im not doing your head in.

Oh unsure, my head is collapsing!

So the maternity policy does actually say notice has to be given, in fact 4 weeks...?

Is that the maternity policy or specific letter to you? Do you have any staff handbook or any other information that mentions notice period increasing with time or anything? Does your contract specifically say 2 weeks, nothing else, and have you had no letters or anything since the contract was issued amending that?

Your contract takes precedence but it is possible to amend a contract without issuing a new one, so if you've had any letters or anything changing it since then, that will be contractual.

If you work in retail you are probably a unionsed workplace I imagine. There may be collective agreements in place about notice or other things. Collective agreements are when a union and an employer negotiate something which applies to everyone or to a group of employees. Your contract should have details of the agreements which apply to you and you should have had written notification of any that have been negotiated since. Have you asked your union rep about notice as it's not clear?

oh im so sorry flowery, im probably causing you complete confussion,

yes the maternity details state, that i should give 28 days notice if i want to resign.

ive also checked the offical letter they sent to me, it states,
if you decide not to excercis your right to reinstatment, we shall take your date of finishing, as the date of your letter of resignation. and shall make any final payment on that basis.

and that combined with what it says in the maternity details about
the maternity information states, your last date of employment will be either

1.the date you informed us of your intention to resign
2.the date we received your undated notice of resignation

1. the date of termination of your employment, if we haven't been able to contact you or heard from you

am i just being overly paranoid about this?

my contact was issues when i started working for this companyabout 10 years ago, after about 4 yaers i got transfered to another store, and i never had a new contract, or any letters or anything confirming the changes, it was initally a scondment but then they asked me to stay on, but i never had any letters to confirm this or a new contract.
so my contract says i work in a differnet store.
and have to give two weeks notice.

im am truely grateful for all your help, i can imagine your brain must ache with all this.

my contract was issued i mean opps