After demotion - boss wants to talk in new year - have I got over the emotions?

[Emotionalsobriety]

I work in a business (professional services) turning over £10m with ambitious growth plans ad one owner-manager.

I led a business unit and turned out to be an inspirational leader. My management style was to work around the needs of the team and my colleagues. My boss warmly acknowledged my success.

my weaknesses are being emotional at work, lack of self-belief and a degree of impulsiveness - never with my peers or team, only with authority figures. Consequently my boss lacked faith in me and (he said when demoting me) found me “combative”.

The trigger for crisis was him acquiring a team that duplicates my team. He told me and the newcomers different things. This led to blowups. after a very unsettled period which didn’t reflect well on either of us he removed me from management and put the newcomers in charge. I’m back “just” fee-earning.

this has been good in that trusted friends out of work tell me I’m in a better place. The new team’s arrival has had some negatives for my team. I had been dreading have to deal with their anger ad disappointment. Instead they know I’m powerless to help so I can mentor them but everyone knows this problem is not of my making. This means everyone can move on and make decisions that are best for them and their families.

the new team is facing challenges (target client going bust, tending to default to the culture of their old firm, etc). I see now that they need leadership. If I’d had iron self-belief and continued to lead, we’d be in a much better place and would reach roi much quicker.

Boss has just done an exercise asking us to nominate colleagues who best represent our culture. I got some lovely nominations from (i think) a team member, an influential manager and boss’ deputy. All were about my leadership and went into some detail. I have decided to believe that I am who these people say I am.

after the culture exercise, my boss, to whom I have not spoken since September, got in touch suggesting lunch in the new year. I would like to tell him the truth: that the business is better off with me in a leadership role.

I think my first and foremost issue is, have I processed the emotions? Have I successfully got rid of the buttons I used to let everyone press? Are there professionals out there who can help with this? I’d really appreciate some wise mumsnet comments.

I think you need some support in your leadership.
can you get some leadership training?
or a coach
Or a mentor from another part of the firm?

have this set up before you make your bid for more leadership .

it sounds like you have all the elements you need once you get on top of the emotional and steady issues xx

It sounds like your downwards management of the team might have been ok and your handling of managing upwards was the problem. It's a skill you learn.

I think you have to decide now whether your will run towards or away from the challenge. Either you shut the door completely by saying to your boss you're not cut out for leadership, or you pitch for getting back into leadership and find ways to self develop.

The "buttons" you refer to won't just go away - you are who you are, you learn over time to mitigate your natural tendencies and become better at leadership without compromising who you are.

In my first senior leadership role I'd describe myself as having been a bloody nightmare to start with, but luckily for me someone higher up the chain saw past my slightly difficult behaviours (quite similar to yours actually!) and gave me the space, opportunity and coaching to shape it into something more productive. I had good ideas and I'm very good at cutting through the crap and seeing to the heart of a problem, I just lacked the skills and experience to present it in a way that didn't piss everyone off! Managing upwards is now widely recognised as one of my key skills.

Can I recommend this as a self development tool www.redbull.com/int-en/wingfinder as it will give you tips on how to handle your areas of weakness/for development.

Thank you both!

it has taken a few months to get to this level of insight and I don’t want to talk to boss till I’m a bit more sure those emotions and impulses aren’t going to bubble up again…

i feel like I’ve got to the first step with the “buttons” thing but that’s just a first step.
in terms of the future - I feel there is value in upskilling irrespective of boss’ reaction.

How did you overcome this?

” I had good ideas and I'm very good at cutting through the crap and seeing to the heart of a problem, I just lacked the skills and experience to present it in a way that didn't piss everyone off!”

He demoted you!?

Why are you still there? Why haven't you taken your fabulousness somewhere else, somewhere more supportive?

Why on earth would you want to work for him at all if he demoted you? Let alone step back up to the position that he rescinded from you?

Why not?
i have 8 years’ credit here. Literally dozens of colleagues who feel respect and gratitude for me. I don’t want to have to start again.

I wouldn’t see starting again as a weakness or a bad thing. Truth is (and I’m sure it’s not about the money - you seem to really care for your team) but starting again could mean higher salary, you know what you are doing and can start with confidence and bring some of your learnings.

Sounds like they really took the p and had zero respect for you. They are bringing you back out of desperation. This could work well for you - I’d say also go into the meeting with things that you want to negotiate to ensure that this doesn’t happen again.

Personally I struggle to stay where I’m unappreciated. But I understand that there is a lot of emotion and hard work tied into this.

Only you know if you are in a better place. I agree, get some coaching. Prepare for that meeting and to boost your confidence start job hunting to prove to yourself that you are able to move around.

Thank you. How do I find a coach? Any recommendations?

I agree with others here - I can't see why you are still working there; and I have doubts that you can easily change a perception held about you at this point in time.

But if I may play devils advocate for a second? Have you by any chance "lovely comments" with "popularity" - it is very easy to be popular, but that isn't necessarily the same thing as being effective or meeting the needs of the business. If this is the owner of the business, it makes very little sense to acquire a duplicate team and them back that team and its manager unless that team is producing what the owner requires and the existing team isn't. That isn't to say that you are "wrong" - maybe more, are you the right fit for this employer where they are right now?

Whatever has gone on here, you are the only person to be able to judge where the business and you stand, but if people you trust are saying that you are better now than previously, why is that? And would that "better you" grow and develop better in a workplace more suited to your style? Even if the business is better off with you in leadership, is that the same thing as you being better off in the business?

I understand Neriah.
new team comes from a bigger firm and are more corporate. But boss is growth-focussed and wants 12 people at full utilisation, not 6. He wants to keep both if he can make the numbers work.
the comments I got were all highly detailed stuff about my management skills - nothing to do with being “lovely”, etc. I would literally put them on my LinkedIn or cv. They are very professionally focussed.

”people you trust are saying that you are better now than previously, why is that? And would that "better you" grow and develop better in a workplace more suited to your style? Even if the business is better off with you in leadership, is that the same thing as you being better off in the business?”

great questions. Unfortunately boss was gaslighting me. I know this because new team member gave me info when I Interviewed him as a candidate. When the gaslighting stopped, I realised I wasn’t going mad/being over sensitive/being paranoid. The self-doubt stopped.

after the culture exercise, my boss, to whom I have not spoken since September, got in touch suggesting lunch in the new year. I would like to tell him the truth: that the business is better off with me in a leadership role.
Don't you tell him.
He promoted the wrong person and it's gone downhill since that bad decision.
Wait for him to beg you.
I think that you probably hold more cards than you realise.

@Emotionalsobriety basically I overcame it by learning to walk away and not get caught up in the moment. I took notice of what sort of things push my buttons and made a mental note to take a breath and think about it before reacting.

Also I learned to tell a story as it were to bring people along with me, rather than declaring up front well there's the problem and why don't you all just get on with solving it the way I want!

I also now think about what I want to achieve, where I would be prepared to concede or compromise, who I need to influence and I get my facts lined up so I can answer questions.

As an example - I came across a situation recently where I discovered one of my new team is being treated unfairly when it comes to the kind of work they're being given compared to others of their grade. Unfairness is something that really triggers me - it's one of my core values that I can't compromise on. Knowing this, I also know that sort of thing can make me react badly. Old me would have reacted in the moment with a terrible email to seniors. What I did though is to write the email and not send it (and never will - already deleted!) then I asked someone else a few questions to get a bit of background and key facts. Then I walked away from it and let it settle overnight. The next day my unfairness rage had calmed down and I had thought of a good solution that would address both the unfairness and the root cause, which was actually about the way certain work was being done. When I went to more senior people about it I could explain the problem, solution and the impact both on the individual and the team in a way that was a lot more persuasive than "x is being treated badly!!!!! Fix it!!!"

Regarding finding a coach what I've done in the past is to identify someone I think does whatever I want to work on well and ask them if they'd mind sharing their thought process and giving me some tips to help my development. Very rarely will someone say no if you pitch it in those terms.

Maybe you need to listen to what he wants to discuss rather than leaping in to push what you want? You haven't spoken to him since September, it might be more important to rebuild the relationship first?

Considering the previous critique was that you were too "combative" and you've not spoken to him since September, I'm not sure how wise it would be to launch into pushing for leadership the first time he asks to meet. It might be better to get a read on the lay of the land first.

youveturnedupwelldone that’s super-helpful, have read and will reread

User, yes, absolutely. He might be perfectly happy with the way things are now. But he’s exceptionally busy so there is some purpose to it.

@Emotionalsobriety you can do a Google search although I’d always do a free discovery call first before committing financially. And there are many “self proclaimed” coaches.

Citizens advice are always happy to lend an ear. Maybe you might be able to find some free phone services specifically for women in their careers too.

Or if you have someone or an ex employee that was a friend who you trust and knows the system - given them a call.

Op, I’m impressed by your self belief, but the important thing is to realise being a manager is managing both up and down. A manager who only looks one way, is not a good manager, your post still tells me you are downward looking. You need to work out how to manage up as well, and that’s more than telling him you’re the best. The root cause here seems to be you’re, understandably, unhappy about your demotion and want to get back up. You’re not really demonstrating you have learned to close the gaps, just you chose to believe you’re all that and want to tell your manager so.

you need to manage expectations, a new team will always have teething problems, it takes time to settle in, this is to be expected. Ir doesn’t mean they are going to play musical chairs so quickly.

I had a similar situation, not that I was emotional or impulsive or anything, but I was known as difficult by management, but loved by those below. I argued by case a bit too strongly and pissed management off. I took a sideways move, out of direct leadership due to it, a couple of years ago.

they now want to move me back up again in the new year. I habe to be honest I was a little surprised when told. I’m not sure how I feel about it. On one side a bit pleased, the ha! Feeling, on the other, I refuse to get my hopes up or pay it any attention until it’s confirmed and announced.

Honestly, I think you're probably at the end of the road with this particular organisation. The boss doesn't think you fit what you want to be doing and it's very unlikely he'll reverse himself, plus the two of you clash personally. He almost certainly expected you to leave when he demoted you.

It's a mistake to get overly invested in One True Job. Sometimes all you can do is recognise that where you are is a dead end and find fresh pastures.

Thanks Sylvie.

Well you know your weaknesses so you need to put a plan in place and reflect everytime you make a decision on whether you are being impulsive or combative.

Leadership is keeping multiple p lates spinning. Weighing up multiple issues when making a decision. Making decisions for the business that you might not personally agree with. Etc

I think if you are realistic about your strengths while addressing your weaknesses and how you will overcome them you will do well.

Cosywintertime that is a remarkably similar story.

given what you say, how will you act differently this time?

Let him do all the talking don’t reply much at this initial meeting. Delve deeper and deeper into his reasons for meeting up. Throw him a few crumbs to keep him talking. Go home and mull it all over. Get loads more money if he wants you back on board.

Bireadwhatiread - you’d be a good leadership coach :)
thanks for the pithy comments.