After demotion - boss wants to talk in new year - have I got over the emotions?

[Emotionalsobriety]

I work in a business (professional services) turning over £10m with ambitious growth plans ad one owner-manager.

I led a business unit and turned out to be an inspirational leader. My management style was to work around the needs of the team and my colleagues. My boss warmly acknowledged my success.

my weaknesses are being emotional at work, lack of self-belief and a degree of impulsiveness - never with my peers or team, only with authority figures. Consequently my boss lacked faith in me and (he said when demoting me) found me “combative”.

The trigger for crisis was him acquiring a team that duplicates my team. He told me and the newcomers different things. This led to blowups. after a very unsettled period which didn’t reflect well on either of us he removed me from management and put the newcomers in charge. I’m back “just” fee-earning.

this has been good in that trusted friends out of work tell me I’m in a better place. The new team’s arrival has had some negatives for my team. I had been dreading have to deal with their anger ad disappointment. Instead they know I’m powerless to help so I can mentor them but everyone knows this problem is not of my making. This means everyone can move on and make decisions that are best for them and their families.

the new team is facing challenges (target client going bust, tending to default to the culture of their old firm, etc). I see now that they need leadership. If I’d had iron self-belief and continued to lead, we’d be in a much better place and would reach roi much quicker.

Boss has just done an exercise asking us to nominate colleagues who best represent our culture. I got some lovely nominations from (i think) a team member, an influential manager and boss’ deputy. All were about my leadership and went into some detail. I have decided to believe that I am who these people say I am.

after the culture exercise, my boss, to whom I have not spoken since September, got in touch suggesting lunch in the new year. I would like to tell him the truth: that the business is better off with me in a leadership role.

I think my first and foremost issue is, have I processed the emotions? Have I successfully got rid of the buttons I used to let everyone press? Are there professionals out there who can help with this? I’d really appreciate some wise mumsnet comments.

TheGrimm

you are so right! But I am going to find that v hard.

firstly, I am naturally open and impulsive
secondly, until about Easter this year I had him on a pedestal. He is a natural salesman and negotiator with a poker face. He’s done a great deal for my career. I’ve built my part of his business and for 7 years he backed me to the hilt. Back at Easter I probably would have said “you can do x and y but you can’t stop me being grateful”. Like a faithful abandoned wife!

ironically, it was in soume of our last conversations that I began to think “are you ok?” and “have you reached the limits of your competence?”. He started to overplay the salesman/controlling deal thing.

I will start a new thread about leadership coaching/management books.

@Emotionalsobriety

‘you are so right! But I am going to find that v hard’

This is the impression I got from your post and this is why it’s important to bring your poker face to the table so you don’t fall for his bluffing (if this is what he does) and sacrifice your position.

Start looking on YouTube they have loads of videos on there to help you in situations like this start practicing. He’ll start with open questions to get you spilling your guts don’t allow this to happen learn how to get him to spill his guts.

Good luck.

Keep us updated.

Fuck.

I have No Poker Face.

he thinks I have one (has said so). But that’s adhd-type depersonalisation which looks the same but definitely is not!
[no diagnosis and apologies for using adhd as a “shorthand” it’s the only way I can explain it]

“you don’t fall for his bluffing (if this is what he does)”
’He’ll start with open questions to get you spilling your guts”.

yes.
that’s him.
he once said to me “sometimes you have to tell people what they want to hear”.

one source of our clashes is that I am penetrative and can get him to open up on neutral topics more than others can.

I would not stay in this role.

You said you did really well for the business and the owner demoted you because you are ''emotional'?

Are you a woman and is this a male business owner?

It sounds like this person also is not being that straightforward when communicating with you and other teams.

Someone who valued would not have demoted you. If there is a real issue they would have supported you to get some additional training/coaching to deal with the situation.

Frankly I would take your skills somewhere else where they will be more appreciated.

“Are you a woman and is this a male business owner?”
yes

my fairly-astute local walking buddy diagnosed this as a case of “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”.

but you can be a woman without being impulsive

I agree that coaching should help. As a retired professional executive coach (masters, doctorate and many years experience) I would recommend that you look for someone qualified and supervised, not just someone who's good at doing the job their way. Coaching is usually the opposite of advice giving (though that very occasionally has a place too). Having a coach who is in supervision should help ensure that their practice is effective and professional.

Unfortunately the coaching industry is still not well regulated, but ask any potential coach what their qualification is and look to see if it is accredited by the AFC or EMCC.

Not every coach is for everyone. There's a lot of chemistry involved, so do meet a couple of people before you commit. A good coach will take time to get to know you and to unpick the issues, so you should expect to sign up for a few sessions.

I think there's a bit of conclusions-jumping about the lunch. All that's happened is that the boss has put in a lunch with someone who reports to him that he hasn't connected with in some time. There's no evidence that he has any intention of discussing OP's position in the company just because some people said nice things about OP in a survey. I would be pretty wary of assuming that he's willing to reopen the issue at all.

“Unfortunately the coaching industry is still not well regulated, but ask any potential coach what their qualification is and look to see if it is accredited by the AFC or EMCC. “

excellent, thanks

SylvieLaufeydott

All I know is that the lunch has been triggered by 2 of the 5 most senior people in the organisation being prepared to nominate me and to write in detail about my management skills. They are sending a message, not without risk to themselves.

in the summer he told me he had decided to fire me but then changed his mind “because it would upset the other managers” [[this was when I displaced him from the mental pedestal].

whether he sees my seniority and embeddedness as an asset or a threat we don’t know.

All I know is that the lunch has been triggered by 2 of the 5 most senior people in the organisation being prepared to nominate me and to write in detail about my management skills

Did he say that's the reason for him suggesting lunch?

No but it’s on the same email thread.

It’s not to fire me. I’d be gone if that was the case (and gone before new year as it will be 2 years since I switch from self-employed to employed status).

I pick my battles more now. And I try to resolve issues before they become issues, ie I learn from my mistakes, I try ti be more supportive, but honestly im still very difficult, I know I am, I have a mouth on me,I guess rhe difference now is I am aware of the negative impact of my behaviour, but I still do it, I won’t lie, in the moment, I can’t keep my mouth shut.

but I’m very capable, I’m senior and treated as such by the wider org, irrelevant of my role. Senior management like the fact I deliver, they dislike my attitude at times, I can’t play the game.

i will wait and see what is confirmed over the next few days and weeks, this is what we want to do, is very different to this is what we are doing. I guess I just need to keep trying to improve.

”I won’t lie, in the moment, I can’t keep my mouth shut.but I’m very capable, I’m senior and treated as such by the wider org, irrelevant of my role. Senior management like the fact I deliver, they dislike my attitude at times, I can’t play the game.”

snap.

This was my thought from the start also. I think regardless of the outcome from the lunch (and you’ve had some great advice already on how to approach this) you would be well advised to think about how you “rebrand” your development areas from “emotional” - “female”/innate/limiting - to more specific, neutral and actionable traits that can be demonstrably improved.

Thank you barbara, love the name.
agree I am getting some great advice :)

Re “from “emotional” - “female”/innate/limiting - to more specific, neutral and actionable traits that can be demonstrably improved” - I find this language a little opaque and wonder if you could give examples. Thank you

Sorry, what I was trying to say that if you allow others to label you as “emotional” that reinforces a negative impression of something you are and can never change. And something it’s much less likely a man would be labelled as.

If you turn it around and try to identify skills or behaviours you are working on - “I can appear confrontational when…” “I need to improve on how I communicate the needs of my team to senior management” - then that’s much easier to sell as something you can learn and improve on.

You need to be in control of how others see your faults as well as your strengths.

Make sense?

This demotion was it actually you Losing salary? Or just 2 teams joining and 1 person becoming overall lead.

As if I hadn't salary removed I'd be leaving asap.

If I just had some management tasks removed I'd be less fussed.

I knew you were ADHD. This could have been me. I left the whole industry as the amount of effort it took not to be impulsive had basically drained all that ADHD drive.

“If you turn it around and try to identify skills or behaviours you are working on - “I can appear confrontational when…” “I need to improve on how I communicate the needs of my team to senior management” - then that’s much easier to sell as something you can learn and improve on.

You need to be in control of how others see your faults as well as your strengths.

Make sense?”

AMAZING!

How? What’s the tell?

“I knew you were ADHD”

Burnout
salary is same.
clientwork is better/more achievable.
i don’t want my two new partners to leave. My workload had been unmanageable for some time.

@Emotionalsobriety · Today 11:26

“Are you a woman and is this a male business owner?”
yes

my fairly-astute local walking buddy diagnosed this as a case of “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”.

but you can be a woman without being impulsive''

Not quite the point I was trying to make: I was asking that question because women being called 'emotional' is often not based on fact but just misogyny/prejudices from male colleagues...