Being interviewed by someone three bands below me?

[Elsiebear90]

I have been doing agency work for an NHS department for the last twelve months as a senior clinical specialist, the manager has secured funding for a permanent post and I am the only applicant and candidate.

I received my invitation to interview yesterday and was quite surprised and confused to see the panel members are the manager and an assistant three bands below me. I can’t be too specific about job titles as it’s fairly niche and could be outing, however, it would be the equivalent of an advanced nurse practitioner interview with the ward manager and a HCA on the panel.

At other trusts for a role of this banding consultants are usually on the panel along with department leads. I feel quite confused as to how someone who is not trained to and cannot perform my role, and does not manage people who perform my role (or anyone in any capacity) will be able to assess my suitability for the role.

As not to drip feed, manager is very close to this person and has form for treating them as a pseudo deputy manager to the point where this person feels it appropriate to dictate and delegate to senior members of staff (which is causing tension in the department).

I feel it is inappropriate and quite insulting to be interviewed by someone I am senior to, especially given the dynamics in the department.

My question is do I just suck this up and not mention it? Or do I discuss it with the manager?

I queried it with some colleagues and they were shocked and assumed it must have been a mistake.

It's not uncommon in my area of the nhs.

I've got experience of having lower bandings in the interview room, in our team its Usually it's some form of peer worker /expert by experience/ service user rep

We also for higher banding jobs have had panels of a variety of bands as a focus group

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for this to happen. Someone in a junior position, especially one earmarked for a future management role, needs experience interviewing and can potentially provide useful feedback, potentially spotting problems a more senior person might be less in touch with.

I think it’s odd that you find this insulting, as if the prestige of the people on the interview panel somehow reflects on you. Do you think this person being on the panel will impact the outcome of your interview, and if so, how or why?

Yes I think that’s very odd if they are planning on asking any clinical questions relevant to your applied for grade.

Is the manager from a clinical background?

I was on the interview panel for B6 jobs. We had B8, B7, B3. The B3 has some training to do with diverse panel representation. Has the manager decided it is a foregone conclusion you will get the job, so no need to have anyone else senior?

Will this person be working for you? Maybe they are there to assess team dynamics rather than your skills?

You won't know it's inappropriate until the interview and finding out what questions the lower banding person asks. For instance could they be around equality and diversity or working in a team? If so totally fine.

People applying for a senior clinical director post at my NHS organisation had questions asked by band 6s.

Maybe they are trying to work out if you think you are too self important?

I know in my public sector organisation, the recruitment process for a Head of Service post would include interviews with a panel of mixed level staff including entry level.

There's also a growing move to having experts by experience on interview panels. A definite shift away from interview panels being directly hierarchical.

So no, I don't think it's usual, but I can understand why it's raising eyebrows given the specific dynamics with this individual.

In primary schools, it’s common for candidates for teaching or head teacher posts to also be interviewed by a panel of the pupils in addition to VIP adults.
That way, they can ask questions reflecting how you impact on their lives and future decisions you might make that affect them. Because managers often don’t think that minions should have a voice.

I’ve been working there for twelve months and the funding was secured with the aim of recruiting me, job was only advertised for a week and I was emailed as soon as it went out, so yes it’s pretty much a foregone conclusion I will get the role. In interviews for this banding the questions are primarily clinical with leadership and management questions added. She’s not clinical beyond assisting me in my role and her role is not to lead or manage.

I think the dynamics in the department is what has made me feel insulted, as this person is already behaving as though she is our manager when she is not, and this just adds fuel to the fire if you see what I mean.

When I was a school parent governor, I was always on the interview panel for teachers. I was only ever allocated 'non-teaching' questions - so questions about SEN and parent relationships, questions about self-care in the school day, safeguarding, etc., rather than curriculum, team management, etc.

I always declared my status before asking questions, to give them every opportunity to frame their answers positively. For example "I'm a parent governor, so I'm really keen to find out what you think your role is in promoting good relationships between parents and the school?' It was seen as a major red flag if the interviewee showed signs that they viewed me or my questions as trivial or not worthy of their time. We had some real corkers, too. "Oh parents just get really anxious and need to let us do the teaching..."

Respect the decision of the person who has set up the panel and treat the HCA equivalent as your equal. You'll impress the panel.

I’ve no idea if it’s unusual for the NHS as a whole but being interviewed by the people you are going to be working alongside is pretty standard in my industry. A candidate who is dismissive of or thinks of themselves as too important to engage with the “little people” and gives off a whiff of that at interview isn’t going to facilitate good team dynamics. A candidate who recognises that they can’t do their job without all the support staff at the grades below them and sees the importance of gaining their trust and commitment by demonstrating that at interview, goes far.

It doesn’t sound like you like or respect this junior colleague, or trust the manager’s judgement, and are going to continue to find the dynamics of the team difficult. Is this really the job for you? It might seem like an “easy” opportunity in the sense that as the only candidate you think it’s more or less guaranteed, but surely you’d be better off in a more harmonious environment where you don’t already see yourself as in battle against colleagues?

It’s not that I don’t respect “the little people” at all, I wouldn’t have batted an eyelid if they were part of a wider panel, as I understand they can ask questions regarding diversity and team working etc. It’s that with the dynamics in the department, together with lack of other panel members, it appears to be another attempt to establish or reinforce this person in a pseudo authority position.

I have had some serious reservations about this role for a number of reasons, but it offers flexible working and no oncall, I’m TTC, so it works well if I have a child, but the department is fairly toxic with blatant favouritism shown by the manager.

I used to be a band 3 and I was on panels. It was so we could see if the candidates thought they were too good to interact with a ‘mere administrator’. I was encouraged to emphasise my low banding. Sure enough, some candidates did ignore me and talk just to the higher bands; even in response to questions I’d asked. That was a red flag for the seniors. I’m not saying you are like that, I just wanted to give a genuine insight.

As for her acting like a team manager; could she just be trying to help? I know that I would do a lot of team coordination so that the specialists didn’t have to think about it. Maybe she is well-meaning. In my experience, the NHS is a bit like this with admins. Administrators often get put in charge of scheduling and frontline enquiries and then all you need to do is do as you’re told with regard to seeing patients. It’s supposed to be helpful as far as I’m aware.

Usual in my NHS job. It's to get a perspective from somebody who may be a direct report/ peer to the interviewee. Get an idea how they will fit into the team. You sound very up yourself

Right so the manager is showing favouritism to this person and giving them tasks above their pay grade.

But, the manager secured funding specifically intended for hiring you, and only advertised the job for a week, which has enabled you to be the only candidate. That is also favouritism, in fact it’s borderline corruption, but you don’t seem to mind his favouritism when it’s to your benefit?

Yes, you should be interviewed by a competent panel of people senior to you. But also you should be interviewed as just one of many qualified candidates. Sounds to me like the manager wants to keep the fact that he’s created a role for you and is only interviewing one candidate very quiet. Because all of you are being dodgy as fuck.

Ugh. Hate what British public sector has become.

I guess it’s a bit like 360 appraisals? I wouldn’t worry about it … as long as you don’t think there’s any particular reason they have it in for you it sounds like the job is yours and interview a formality!

Yeah, she makes clinical decisions on our behalf that are wrong and unsafe, then when challenged becomes defensive and lies, she tries to handle clinical situations outside of her scope without alerting senior members of staff for input, handles them incorrectly causing harm to patients etc. When raised with her and the manager the manager will defend her to the hilt. Manager consults with and asks for her input on clinical changes to the service (services she is not involved in beyond booking appointments) without involving the team members who actually perform the service. She has resisted all efforts from colleagues to be trained and upskill, I think she just wants to lead/manage, but doesn’t have knowledge or skills to do so.

Why do you want to work there if you think so little of your colleagues?

You need to report this, Op. Use the Speak Up Guardian that you will have in your trust.

It's clearly not a suitable role or environment for you, then.

Best withdraw now and explain exactly why.

@Kwer not really my decision though is it? How long she puts the post out for and how many people apply and are shortlisted? I didn’t ask her to do that, she’s been hounding me for the past 12 months to work there permanently and I’ve refused up until now due to concerns with how the dept is managed. What was I supposed to do? Refuse to apply for the post on moral grounds because it wasn’t out for long enough?

I didn’t really consider this may have been an attempt to keep dodgy recruitment practices quiet tbh, I assume HR are aware of everything and have okayed it as I was invited to interview by them.

Yes the NHS is a shit show, this is the tip of the iceberg unfortunately, far worse goes on.

I will just not mention it and go to the interview and play it by ear. If this is what happens in other areas then maybe the other trusts I’ve worked for are just behind with the times.

@WrongSwanson these are just two colleagues out of a large team, this is the NHS, I’ve worked for them for many years across many different trusts, stuff like this goes on everywhere, you leave one bad environment for another one with the same or different issues. Last dept I worked for was investigation for fraud and corruption and the manager was sacked, there’s issues everywhere, it’s either this position or I go back to working on calls and 12 hour days.

This !

Couldn’t get worked up about this. If you want the role then go to the interview, if you don’t want it then don’t go.