Being interviewed by someone three bands below me?

[Elsiebear90]

I have been doing agency work for an NHS department for the last twelve months as a senior clinical specialist, the manager has secured funding for a permanent post and I am the only applicant and candidate.

I received my invitation to interview yesterday and was quite surprised and confused to see the panel members are the manager and an assistant three bands below me. I can’t be too specific about job titles as it’s fairly niche and could be outing, however, it would be the equivalent of an advanced nurse practitioner interview with the ward manager and a HCA on the panel.

At other trusts for a role of this banding consultants are usually on the panel along with department leads. I feel quite confused as to how someone who is not trained to and cannot perform my role, and does not manage people who perform my role (or anyone in any capacity) will be able to assess my suitability for the role.

As not to drip feed, manager is very close to this person and has form for treating them as a pseudo deputy manager to the point where this person feels it appropriate to dictate and delegate to senior members of staff (which is causing tension in the department).

I feel it is inappropriate and quite insulting to be interviewed by someone I am senior to, especially given the dynamics in the department.

My question is do I just suck this up and not mention it? Or do I discuss it with the manager?

I queried it with some colleagues and they were shocked and assumed it must have been a mistake.

It’s not just NHS things like this go on all over the place . If you take the job you are going to have to learn to get your head down and get on with your job and ignore what’s going on ? Is the job and convenience worth that ? That’s up to you . I am having to do it and it’s not that difficult when you put your mind to it .

The only candidate? No equal opportunities here.

As I think you know based on your last post OP, this is life in the NHS, and there are similar problems in numerous departments. If you plan on staying in the NHS, I'd put up with it because it sounds like the manager values you and the flexibility works for you. Otherwise, look to leave the NHS.

The more junior interviewer can still have knowledge on diversity equality core values etc. Perhaps she/he will be asking you those sort of questions.

TBH I think the interview panel is the least of your worries here. I’d forget about this one and apply for something similar further down the line if you can.

I can’t comment specifically on NHS but in the non healthcare sector I work in, someone a grade below is often involved in the interview process. Generally, the lower graded person would show the outside candidates around and then feedback to the interview panel. Or there could be a presentation by the candidate and a variety of staff asked to feedback or be prepared to ask questions at the presentation.

I agree with this. I am alarmed at your sense of being 'above' people at work. Makes the workplace a misery when people are hung up on this.

@Elsiebear90 no that should not happen!!!! i was NHS and would never expect to be interviewed by a lesser grade than myself for any position!!! as for her seeming to dictate to the unit what happens, then that is absolutely ridiculous!! I would be taking that higher, sorry!! not on! Is the manager not a competent person in her job?? when you get the post, which you undoubtedly will, it would be good if you started by having the junior staff doing what they are meant to be doing and not dictating to seniors how to do things and what to do! if junior staff is not happy then she can take it to a more senior manager, like the ward sister or something!

Ultimately, you want a job that will suit your future plans to have a child.

Can you a) suck up the issues created by this person for the chance to leave at 5pm
Or b) will she impact you in such a way that your time in work become too difficult and potentially cause harm to you by being associated with her?

What would be the chance of you being offered a position somewhere else with your specialism?

It's completely normal. The manager will be the one making the ultimate decision though but they could be there for a number of reasons.

I had an interview that included a panel member of a lower band than the role I was applying for. That person simply asked the set questions about criminal record etc, which every single interviewee will have anyway - band 2 or band 8. I wouldn’t have found it appropriate for them to ask me the competency based questions. So it does depend on the context. I am in a senior role in the nhs ( clinical).

In the NHS people definitely get interviewed by those on a lower grade.

I was wondering if this person was a PA but I suspect PAs are now on fairly high banding

Me too. I have interviewed for the HT and deputy head. Neither jobs I could do. But I do know our school very well. I know what parents think a good HT looks like from a parents pov. What a good ht looks like from a school pov was for the other governors to pick apart.

Part of it is knowing what your not after so I asked about restraint and luckily got the right answers

It’s not that she’s present at the interview to ask appropriate questions, I can appreciate the benefits of having a diverse panel, it’s more that she is half the panel and the usual panel members are not present. The interview is competency based and each panel member has to produce a score, she has neither the skills or knowledge to assess my competency for the post, so her being a joint panel member alongside the manager seems inappropriate. I looked into the NHS interview policy and it was quite clear that panel members had to have appropriate knowledge and skills to select a candidate for the position and she does not.

Given the issues in the department with her acting above her knowledge and skillset as well as her banding (I work with non clinical managers and that’s not the issue, the issue is she is not a manager, she is an assistant), it appears to be another attempt for us to view and accept her as a senior member of the team or part of management when she is neither.

Ultimately, it is the manager’s decision, but something I will factor in when deciding whether to accept the position if offered.

It’s not that she’s present at the interview to ask appropriate questions, I can appreciate the benefits of having a diverse panel, it’s more that she is half the panel and the usual panel members are not present. The interview is competency based and each panel member has to produce a score, she has neither the skills or knowledge to assess my competency for the post, so her being a joint panel member alongside the manager seems inappropriate.

Given this update, it is completely inappropriate for her to be doing the interview. With the interview I mentioned earlier , there was also a medical consultant and senior manager ( of a higher band than me) on the panel for the competency based questions. You mentioned acp as an example in your first post, which is my role. I would never be interviewed by a ward manager and hca.

It does make me wonder why you are interviewing when already have reservations about the management of the department.

Seems pointless to interview somebody for a job if you're the only applicant

Sorry, I should have explained it better in my previous posts! I was annoyed and can see I didn’t give all the relevant information.

Yes it is a advanced clinical post, previous interviews I have attended at this level I have been asked to do a presentation, been given a written exam, have been asked a series of advanced technical and clinical questions to assess my knowledge and skills, as well as managerial and leadership questions. I typically am asked maybe one or two generic interview style questions such as “tell me your strengths and weaknesses” or “how would you handle a patient complaint?”. The bulk of the interview is clinical and technical questions at an advanced level, so usually present is clinical lead, manager/head of department and a consultant, because they will cover all areas: management, leadership and clinical and technical skills and knowledge.

Other than maybe equality and diversity, conflict resolution and maybe team working, I don’t see how she can effectively score me for the interview. So I am confused about why she is half the panel when there are number of colleagues she could have chosen to attend that were more suitable.

I think you are right. It doesn't sound like good practice. For that level of post I would expect a lot of clinical scrutiny from peers and a consultant at interview. It would be typical to have the informal opinion of other staff from a show round or coffee chat but it should not be part of the formal interview process. I would be inclined to withdraw my application and look elsewhere

@Lougle honestly, because they are the only centre in the area that allow flexible working and no oncalls while still performing the more complex work that I specialise in. I am TTC, if it wasn’t for that I would have accepted the invitation to return to my previous department at another trust. But, that’s a huge tertiary centre and manager was very firm on everyone has to work full time, long days and participate in oncall, which is fair. I don’t want to do that if I have a child. This is a small DGH and there is no oncall service and it’s more family friendly while also doing more complex work (that I greatly enjoy) which is not typically undertaken at a DGH, so it’s quite unique in that sense.

However, it’s extremely toxic and I have huge concerns over how the department is managed (this example being the tip of the iceberg), which is why I left it so long before agreeing to apply for a permanent position, but I need the maternity pay that I don’t get on agency and haven’t found anywhere else that offers what they do here. Staff retention is very poor and they can’t attract people to work here (maybe poor reputation?). My plan is to stay here if I have kids then hopefully move back to the tertiary centre I loved when kids are older as I have a very good relationship with them.

Also I presume the manager is a departmental lead rather than a clinician in your specialty. Who is going to measure your competency? At that level a manager is often only present to do the HR functions.
I am surprised at people saying junior staff conduct interviews at this level. They may well be present and able to offer opinions on for example soft skills but cannot give scrutiny on clinical knowledge

It does sound really inappropriate now you have given more details

Tbh I would just go to the interview, see what happens. It may be that a proper panel is convened for the day, it just wasn't in the letter. You never know.

If it does turn out to be just those two & she is scoring you on competency I guess it depends then if you want the job.

If you want the job there is no point taking it further. If you decide against it, is there any way to raise the inappropriate panel?

I would think very carefully about it. It's utterly miserable being in a toxic environment. Ultimately you may find yourself with a duty of care to report to your professional body if things are so bad. It's a huge stress to contemplate...believe me! Good luck

Manager is department lead, was clinical in my role, but is hardly clinical at all now, mostly wfh, which is another issue as we have no clear leadership presence in the department, and I think this has contributed to the assistant stepping into that role and it being facilitated and encouraged. Manager’s knowledge isn’t great or up to date, originally a peer of mine was supposed to be on the panel alongside the manager and he was asked to write some clinical and technical questions, but he’s just told me he believes these will now be given to the assistant to ask!