HR personnel

[YwhyYwhy]

Pls can someone help I am wondering if there is any HR personnel here that can help

Just got caught working 2 jobs simultaneously so both firms caught me & yes is a break of contract & already got appointments for disciplinary hearing. Dismissal is what I know is on the cares for both jobs which I don't mind at all.@ this point because I am just exhausted. I am on suspension now

But my question is pls can anyone tell me what else can be done by these firms apart from sacking me?
Will I be paid if am dismissed after the disciplinary meeting?
Can I refuse to attend the disciplinary meeting and just tell them to make their decision on the evidence they have?

Hi, you should be paid while suspended if they're doing their investigation.. also check in your contract/handbook regarding notice, if working 2 jobs if gross misconduct they can do a dismissal which is without notice, but you will still get your holiday pay. They should let you know all of this when you get your letter, hope that helps. How long have you been there?

Also yes you can refuse to attend, but I would say they would definitely dismiss you if you do that as they will not be able to take into account anything other than the fact they know you were working.. we're the jobs similar/for a company which is in competition?

By simultaneously do you mean the same hours? Are you working for both businesses at the exact same time? WFH?

Hi,

If they decide it's gross misconduct, they can dismiss without notice. You would be entitled to be paid up to that date, including accrued holiday pay.

You don't have to attend but silly not to, you have nothing to lose.

You might be able to make a case for misconduct, in which case you'll also get notice pay.

Thank you all for the advice- much appreciated

I will like to attend the disciplinary meetings but is just that I can't take the effect is having on me as I know how I felt at the 1st meeting where i had a lot of questions asked of me and understandably so but it was uncomfortable and embarrassing for me & I was panicking, palpitations, needing the toilet etc in fact I had to ask that the meeting be continued later because I thought I had to look after my health 1st as some with hypertension and other medical conditions.

I don't mind if the disciplinary committee make their decision based on all the evidences they have because they have already questioned me based on what they have and I have answered although not clearly admitting to working for another employer but they did make it clear they do strongly believe that is the case that I am working for another employer. So I don't really see how the disciplinary meeting will be different to the 1st meeting. Is going to be a dismissal either I attend the meeting or not or I fully confess so I have decided not attend because I do not fancy feeling the way I have felt in the last meetings. I want to protect my health, mental wellbeing 1st I come to terms to loosing both jobs and I wanna move on quick.

You do realise that this is fraud? You intentionally claimed money (wages) to which you were not entitled. I don't know what your employers will do, but most ones I know go after the money at the very least, and my current one has been known to call the police.

Honestly, I can't think why anyone would be fooolish enough to do this, but you seem incredibly self-centred. Your mental wellbeing and "moving on quick" are more important than the fact that you are a thief and totally unrepentant? As for being paid - I sincerely hope not since you have stolen money from two employers and don't give a fig.

@Neriah thanks for your reply. But I am not a thief and I am not self centred thanks. Yes I worked 2 jobs at once to make ends meet and I did my jobs for both firms well with excellent reviews from the firms themselves just before they found out.

You worked for two companies simulataneously, and you knew that. You knew that you took wages from both companies for the same time. That is theft. What reviews you had or what excuses you had are irrelevant. Had you devoted all the time that you were paid for to each company your performance would have been better. Lots of people are struggling to make ends meet but do not resort to theft from their employer(s). They would not both be looking to dismiss you if they were happy about this. And yes - your entire explanation for everything is that you needed to to do it, they had the audacity to investigate you and question you when that was upsetting you, and you just want to move on as quickly as possible and by the way can you also get paid for being dismissed. That is pretty much the definition of self-centred - it's all about you, how hard done to you are, how you don't deserve this because you had a really good reason for it, and how do you get yourself out of the consequences. People can makes mistakes, and yes they can do wrong things.... but the slightest bit of remorse goes a long way. You simply want to take from your employers and have no consequences. What have you learned form this, or does moving on quickly simply involve seeing if you can do it again with other employers?

You don't seem to realise how lucky you are not to have been reported to the police.

Hang on,

When you say you had two jobs, do you mean that you were working 40 hours for each company with a total of 80 hours?

Or do you mean you worked 40 hours total and claimed full time wages from each company?

The difference is very important

Working 2 jobs at the same time and claiming a salary for both is gross misconduct at the very least and you will rightly lose your job as a result.

I hope both companies involve the police as you seem to be an entirely unrepentant thief. You do realise that this will impact any references you will need for other employment as no other company will look kindly upon a dishonest applicant with a dismissal on their reference. You don't seem bothered about having committed fraud or have any remorse for effectively stealing from both companies. Glad you got caught..

@YwhyYwhy @WhoWants2Know has a valid point. Whilst both contracts might have specified Monday to Friday 37.5 hours 08:30 to 17:00 with an hours unpaid lunch, if what you chose to do was work say:
Job 1

• 07:00 to 13:00 Monday to Friday = 6 hours x 5 days = 30 hours
• 07:00 to 15:00 Saturday including 30 min break = 7.5 hours

Job 2

• 13:30 to 19:00 Monday to Friday = 6 hours x 5 days = 30 hours
• 07:00 to 15:00 Sunday including 30 min break = 7.5 hours

Then the situation may still be gross misconduct but not fraud.

Part of the issue will be if you “ate on the run” so didn’t build in rest breaks. For example if you worked 7.5 hours straight for one employer and didn’t factor in a break, reasonably they can ask did you not eat for 7.5 hours? If you say yes then you should deduct that time. If you say no, they can argue that is a breach of policy/law. Sensibly you should factor in 20 minutes to comply with Working Time Regs.

I agree with Sisterpita here - those calling the OP a thief may be well off the mark if OP has actually been working (crazy hours) both jobs - and she has said she is exhausted.

Yes it may be gross misconduct and instant dismissal if both employers and contracts or handbook forbid other employment or require her to devote her full attention during specified working hours to the job.

But if she has fulfilled work duties required of her to their satisfaction then what are you accusing her of stealing?

OP, are there any mitigating circumstances? If you can face it, I would try to attend the hearings to explain how this situation has arisen. It may not change the outcome and I would expect to be dismissed and to struggle to get a reference from either organisation. But if there is a reason you have taken on this situation and you have been trying to fulfill obligations to both employers and can explain this to them, you may be able to agree an exit and holiday pay and agreed reference.

@YwhyYwhy it is best if you attend the disciplinary hearings. I suggest you prepare a statement that you ask to read out at the start. If you have been working crazy hours then working out what policies you have broken and admitting that in the statement may make it less stressful for you.

OP has said that they worked two jobs at once at least twice (once said "working two jobs simultaneously" and once "working two jobs at once"), and was specifically asked if that was what they really meant, which they failed to answer. So unless the OP doesn't understand their own use of "simultaneously" / "two jobs at the same time" then we can assume that they do know what they are talking about - claiming pay from two employers for the same periods of time. That is theft / fraud. The OP has had the opportunity to clarify that they didn't do this, and has not done so.

There is a huge difference between what the OP has described in her own words, and having "two seperate employments against policy". The latter is potentially recoverable as a position - although probably not now since the OP has refused to admit what the employers both know already - if some mitigation and remorse was shown, but the OP still thinks that they have every right and excuse to do whatever they like, as long as they don't have to face any consequences and can "move on quick".

I'm in hr. I'd want to investigate and hear some of the facts directly from you before recommending any action, despite some of the slightly hysterical responses on here.

We employ several people who do two jobs, for all kinds of reasons. It entirely depends what they are and whether they conflict. If we are paying you to deliver a project and you are delivering that, I'd probably be more worried about your wellbeing than anything else as long as you weren't engaged in something which was illegal or direct competition.

If you've been doing something like working for two call centres at exactly the same time then that's obviously not going to be possible and it could be considered gross misconduct with summary dismissal (no notice paid).

Make sure you sort out the tax position either way so that's all above board.

I do worry that this kind of situation is going to kill off employers being open to hybrid working.

@Sisterpita thanks for your reply & u are right I never had any time to take a break for lunch

Bottom line for me is, I did the jobs very well & a high performer at both to which they have both testified to. In fact, my last review was last week and it was perfect review.

Yes, they have both confirmed it's gross misconduct which is fine by me.

@Schoolchoicesucks

thanks

yes there are grounds for mitigating circumstances according to my solicitor but I have decided not to go down that route because right now, the trust on both sides (that is the firm(s) & myself) is dented & I personally do not see a way back from there & perhaps I was just overworked (my own doing- I didn't mind) & tired that the suspension seems like a relieve or the fact that I didn't enjoy the jobs but was excellent at it & had always wanted something else anyway. + it felt like another full time job just trying to keep things separate for each firm not to find out so it was exhausting (I am not complaining about that- totally my choice).

@hurlyb thanks
Yes, i have thought about it several times & I do feel terrible about the impact that it might have on remote work because I have always worked from home and intend to continue.

@TeaMistress & @Neriah I don't understand the issue you have with me working 2 jobs and wishing that the police is called on me for fraud. At the end of the day the firms can't say I have not done what they employed me to do, I was one of their best employees at both firms.
& you also have an issue with me moving on fast. Shall I dwell on it and get depressed and become suicidal? Would you prefer that?
I have taken responsibility and had a meeting and spoken with both firms. it is gross misconduct according to the firms and i expect a dismissal I have accepted it. What is the issue you have with me working to jobs pls

I don't think it's theft for working two jobs and I know for a fact you are not alone in doing so.

The only issue I see is if there is a conflict of interest between the two jobs you work for and if your performance in either job was affected by doing the other one.
If you managed to do your work for both jobs with no complaints/issues then it's not stealing because you have done the work you have been paid for.

This focus on time thing is quite weird

If it's conflicting companies then I can understand that.

If you have a solicitor why are you asking for advice here?

You might be alright if you don't admit anything.

We found out an ex-employee of ours had been moonlighting for another company while working for us: this wasn't a surprise to me as she did absolutely no work!

I gave her short notice dismissal within a month of me joining, only because I could never get hold of her, and she never told the truth.

3 months later her professional body came calling as they had received a complaint and wanted answers. Lucky for my employee our HR team said we had to have her consent for giving any 3rd party disclosures. Her consent never arrived, so she got away with it.

@piperpheobepruepaige Because I want to check and read other people's opinion & real life experiences
That perhaps I will find someone whose gone through same situation willing to share

I don't think it's theft for working two jobs and I know for a fact you are not alone in doing so.

I don't know how to put this any simpler. If you are paid by one employer for your time to do work, and you then are also paid by another employer for your time at the same time, then you are misrepresenting your working hours and that is fraud. Fraud is a form of theft. And that is what the OP has consistently not denied they are doing. Unless you are paid piece rates, you are not paid for the work you produce, you are paid for the contracted hours. OP has committed gross misconduct, and they are "fine with that".

Most people wouldn't be up for admitting they have committed fraud and are fine with it. Most of them couldn't find a lawyer that would think they had a good excuse to do it either.

I work two jobs but both are flexible and both know about each other and don't care which hours I work so long as I attend all meetings booked. And I hit all targets. I think this is the only way to make it work.

I think you need to be clearer about what you were actually doing @YwhyYwhy .

Because working for company A 9-5 Monday-Friday and then Company B evenings and weekends is a VERY different situation to being contracted to work 9-5 Monday to Friday for two companies at the same time.