HR personnel

[YwhyYwhy]

Pls can someone help I am wondering if there is any HR personnel here that can help

Just got caught working 2 jobs simultaneously so both firms caught me & yes is a break of contract & already got appointments for disciplinary hearing. Dismissal is what I know is on the cares for both jobs which I don't mind at all.@ this point because I am just exhausted. I am on suspension now

But my question is pls can anyone tell me what else can be done by these firms apart from sacking me?
Will I be paid if am dismissed after the disciplinary meeting?
Can I refuse to attend the disciplinary meeting and just tell them to make their decision on the evidence they have?

@Neriah I did not say or ever admitted or admit to fraud

I ask again, pls what is your issue with me working 2 jobs and for saying I have no qualms with the firms saying it's gross misconduct and for saying I have moved on?

Out of genuine interest, can you give us an idea of the nature of the work and detail HOW you did both jobs at the same time?

Hi Op
you should have received a copy of the disciplinary policy with jour invite letter, the usual stance is you don’t show then they may postpone and give you an opportunity to attend another time if not they will hold without you and make a decision in your absence.
The meeting will be held by the decision manager who has reviewed the investigation and the hearing will be a final opportunity for you to put forward any mitigation for your actions whilst they re-query or review your comments from the investigation interview. They may make a decision there and then or take time to provide an outcome depending on your policy. It’s always advisable to attend and have your final say, it may not make a difference to the decision im afraid. It would be prudent to check the company code of conduct on their stance on a second job and also depending the industry there may be financial retribution but that would be for the police to decide on the evidence available, this is about on the balance of probability what they believe based on the investigation. I work in Employee Relations and whilst I don’t condone your actions, you are entitled to a fair and proper process. Take care x

Contractors often have more than one client at the same time. It's not abnormal for many to divide their time.

I don't do all my hours in a neat 9-5 and not all jobs need you to. I'm paid to do 35 hours per week. Sometimes I do most work at weekends.

It's not as black and white as some are making out. The breach of trust and confidence is likely the dealbreaker here, not necessarily the two jobs element.

This

Absolutely This. This is theft. Nobody with an ounce of honesty or integrity would do this. You appear to lack even the tiniest shred of remorse and come across as flippant and dishonest.

Fortunately you've been caught and will face the consequences for your actions when you are dismissed for gross misconduct.

Were you being paid for the same hours? Did they both pay you for 9 to 5 for example?

If I paid you to work 9 to 5, and you were doing work for someone else in those hours, clearly it's fraud.

I would report you and sue you.

As op will not clarify this, I would make the assumption she is not a contractor, and she was committing fraud.

I would also be looking at tax and ni paid as that would have mist likely been incorrect as both companies were probably giving her the "one salary" tax allowance.

Personally, I hope the book is thrown at her

The latter won't be true. HMRC will have recalculated her tax code by that point. HMRC dictates your tax code, not each individual employer, they'll be aware there are two salaries coming and will have sent coding notices to each employer as standard.

As an accountant what wouldn't surprise me is if her tax code was one of the reasons she was caught out. Having a BR tax code for a full time job is unusual, unless also receiving a pension, because it means you're taxed at 20% on all the earnings from that employment and using her full allowance elsewhere. Would be unusual to use a full personal allowance outside of your full time job so it may have raised suspicions. Or potentially the OP just couldn't hide two full time jobs very well.

So why are you posting? Employer A employed you to work eg 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday and Employer B employed you to work 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday. You accepted both jobs but irrespective of completing your workload you were effectively defrauding them by not being their sole employee at your contracted hours. As such I would call it fraud/theft/deceit whatever word, they all mean the same really. I would have actually just quit and saved them the time and hassle of all the paperwork and not have being sacked on your cv.

HMRC are very slow to pick things up, and it's not unbelievable that the op was using same tax code. As they won't clarify any details, that could have been how she was caught

Doesn't sound like OP was any kind of contractor to me.

It sounds like she was employed by two different companies to work the same hours, and didn't declare this to either of them.

Even though it sounds like she may have completed all her given work to a high standard across any given week, that's not the agreement either company had with her.

One of the ways I caught out my employee who was moonlighting was that I could never get hold of her during the day (pre my time, she'd agreed 4 days working from home). If I emailed her at 9am, she'd reply back after 5pm. If I called her in for meetings, she never turned up. Admittedly I never guessed she had two jobs; I concluded something wasn't quite right and I dismissed her for failing to do the job she was supposed to do for me, and that's when it all came out.

Eventually this type of fraud catches up with the perpetrator; either via HMRC, another employee raising concerns or their manager. Someone will always catch you out in the end, and it's never going to be worth it for the sake of a few thousand pounds.

@Whatevershallidowithmylife I agree with a pp, if the op was only working 9-5 Monday to Friday across both jobs it is fraud.

However, if the op was working 12-14 hours a day Monday to Sunday, and therefore did her full hours for each job I.e. 2 x 37.5 hours, it would be a breach of contract/policy rather than fraud.

Both are gross misconduct, but fraud could have far wider implications.

It’s a bit strange that people can’t fathom working two jobs and 75 hours a week. I’m in an industry where people regularly do 50 hours a week, occasionally 70 and in-fact some do 100 hours.

It's a bit strange that the OP wont come back and clarify if she was working 2 jobs on their own hours, or if she was basically being paid twice for monday to friday 9-5, but there you go

Some really daft replies here...this is not fraud or theft for goodness sake.

The OP did her two job correctly and delivered for each firm.

The issue is that her contracts would likely have a clause that say that she either can't do another job or would need to seek her employer permission.

OP, would you be able to demonstrate that the hours you did for each company did not overlap and that you did the additional job in your own personal time?

As in: someone could have a day job in an office and then work in a pub in the evenings or at weekends to make some extra money. It really is not unusual for that to happen.

Some people also have a day job and then work on their own small business the rest of the time.

So the context is important here.

Yes you'll be dismissed whether you attend the meetings or not if you've genuinely been working two jobs at the same time and quite rightly.

I'm amazed you're even trying to defend yourself here quite frankly there's no defence its a massive breach of trust and unprofessional and be prepared for future employers to ask questions as to your dismissal - dont expect a reference.

@Startingagainandagain none of us know whether or not it was fraud because the op has not come back to clarify.

If she was only working 9-5 and doing both jobs in that time it is highly likely to be fraud. If she was working 12-14 hours a day it is unlikely to be fraud.

I think, given that the OP was asked repeatedly about this and refused to answer, that that is answer enough. As with the other thread, context is important. How a potential employer might look at gross misconduct would heavily depend on the actual act.

@Startingagainandagain

Some really daft replies here...this is not fraud or theft for goodness sake.

The OP did her two job correctly and delivered for each firm.

And you know this how?

Since the advent of RTI HMRC are very quick to pick up any PAYE matters, and adjust tax codes month by month. No payroll team would use a tax code provided by the employee anyway - HMRC advise the employer on what tax code, and that would be based on the RTI received from each employer.

The OP could well have a BR/D0/D1 tax code for one of the jobs so the tax is likely to be fine. It’s possible that thats how one of the employers found out, but there are any number of reasons for changes in tax code, so a payroll team would have to flag the change to HR, who would have to be sufficiently concerned to look into it. She’s likely to have paid too much NI unless she completed a CA72A form, which makes sure that the ‘second’ employment is only NI’d at 2% if the threshold is exceeded.

Fundamentally there’s nothing wrong with having two jobs. Being paid by both employers for some or all of the same hours, if the employees contract specifies working hours, is clearly wrong. But if they’re done at different times with the consent of the primary employer then no problem. Judging by where the OP has found herself her contract didn’t allow it, and her employer hadn’t been notified. Though, it seems as if they hadn’t noticed via quantity / quality of work!

Please attend and explain your background. You might need references at some point and depending on where you live the job market can be a small place where your reputation precedes you (so it's worth leaving with the best one you can, all things being relative).

It's all me me me op. The "I didn't fancy" comment especially shows how self centred you are. You need to clarify the questions other posters have asked about whether you were contracted for the same hours or not. As a sole employee you will be much more productive than one working for 2 companies. Also can you honestly hand on heart say you put in 80 hours a week for both jobs?