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Original poster

Annual leave

74 replies

Rolly99 · 03/10/2023 08:27

2 members of the same team cannot be off at the same time. Long term policy and is clear.

When it comes to school holidays or festive/religious seasons, turns are given to make it fair.

Holiday calendar recently opened for next year. It is first come first served. Both put their requests in the same day

Person 1 requests their usual period of time in a particular month as per the past few years running when no other requests clashed. It is not school holidays or any important holiday season.

Person 2’s new holiday request slightly overlaps with person 1’s. person 2 demands their manager give them the entire holiday request to be fair to them, as person 1 had it last year (and therefore decline person 1’s whole holiday). However, person 2 also had time off in that same month in previous years, just not the same exact week.

manager did not approve either request and asked them both to compromise and sort out the clash which neither of them want to do.

Who is being unfair?

OP posts:

rookiemere · 03/10/2023 08:29

I think manager needs to manage and prioritise based on what criteria they think best.

JaniceBattersby · 03/10/2023 08:30

The manager. If it’s first come, first served, the person who put the request in first gets the holiday. It’s not up to the employees to sort it out.

Certainlyreally · 03/10/2023 08:30

How many days overlap?
Can person 1 move earlier by that many days?

Person 1 requests their usual period of time in a particular month as per the past few years running when no other requests clashed
So they don't get it

It is not school holidays or any important holiday season.
Irrelevant

Person 2’s new holiday request slightly overlaps with person 1’s. person 2 demands their manager give them the entire holiday request to be fair to them, as person 1 had it last year (and therefore decline person 1’s whole holiday).
Person 2 gets the holiday if neither has been approved

devildeepbluesea · 03/10/2023 08:31

Is there really no possibility of overlapping a couple of days? Seems a bit extreme.

Sensoria · 03/10/2023 08:31

Well firstly, the manager needs to make a decision rather than cower away.

But if it’s about taking it in turns, and person 1 has always had that period off, then surely it’s person 2’s turn to have it off.

SquishyGloopyBum · 03/10/2023 08:35

It's only taking turns though when it's school holidays, which this doesn't sound like it is?

I think manager correct to ask them to sort it in first instance. Is does person 2 have a wedding then or something else which cannot move?

Manager must be prepared to step in if no agreement reached.

arintingly · 03/10/2023 08:35

As a manager, I would:

Talk to both people to understand why they want these particular dates - e.g. if one person is attending a wedding or something and the other person just saw a good deal, I would give the first person the dates.

Just cover the overlap myself or reprioritise within my team to cover unless there was a reason I really couldn't

supersonicginandtonic · 03/10/2023 08:37

Person one put their request in first so therefore person one should get the annual leave.

PenhillDarkMonarch · 03/10/2023 08:41

Agree that the manager should be talking to both and understanding the impact of their trusts are declined.

All other being equal, I would offer to approve both for the days that do not clash and split the days that do. Eg if two days overlap I would offer to approve each for all their request bar one day. They can choose to have that or change the dates, depending on what suited them best.

If only one day overlaps, they both get everything except that day.

Straightomyhead · 03/10/2023 08:43

This should definitely be a manager decision.

Could they overlap for one or two days if manager is able to cover or another member of staff. Can one start one day earlier or later? Basically this is the managers problem to solve and should not be pushed back to staff members

SuperheroBirds · 03/10/2023 08:44

If it is first come first served, I’d have a look at what time they were submitted. It would be nice if they could agree it between themselves, but if they can’t compromise then it would have to go down to the clock.

ActDottie · 03/10/2023 08:47

I think the manager needs to make a decision. Or at least aid the discussion between the two team members to compromise or gather more information in order to prioritise.

Startingagainandagain · 03/10/2023 08:49

Daft policy in the first place...

Unless you are a tiny business/organisation with a couple of staff members only you should be able to cope with two staff members being off at the same time for 2 days.

How does the company manage when people are off sick or leave the organisation?

OlizraWiteomQua · 03/10/2023 08:51

The manager cannot tell the employees to sort it out between them. That's being a crap manager and totally failing at a key part of their job which is to provide a hierarchy so that disagreements can be resolved.

The "who requested first" tiebreaker doesn't apply if both requests received simultaneously.

The "if a clash take turns" doesn't apply as there wasn't a contest last year and it's not an obviously popular week so there's no expectation that there would be another clash next year.

The fair thing to do is to split the overlap in half and each of them can have half of it and have slightly fewer days than they wanted.

But before doing that the manager should revisit the "no two people on simultaneous leave" rule and decide if it's really right. Could the department actually manage ok with both of them off for a few days? What happens if someone is ill while someone else is on leave?

QueenOfTheLabyrinth · 03/10/2023 08:57

It is first come first served. Both put their requests in the same day

Well the policy is clear - first come, first served.

The fact they both asked on the same day is irrelevant, their requests will be timestamped so whoever requested it first, gets it.

Poniesandrainbows · 03/10/2023 09:00

Surely person 2 gets it this year if person 1 has always had it previously.

rookiemere · 03/10/2023 09:01

How many days do the holidays overlap ?

WeWereInParis · 03/10/2023 09:03

I don't think you need to take turns when it's just random days. . It sounds like this is along the lines of "you had the 3rd March last year, I must have it this year". Surely this is a time when the first come first served rule comes into play.

It is first come first served. Both put their requests in the same day

But who requested it first?

WeWereInParis · 03/10/2023 09:04

manager did not approve either request and asked them both to compromise and sort out the clash which neither of them want to do.

And this is obviously a ridiculous position to take.

Ylvamoon · 03/10/2023 09:09

I think manager needs to make the decision as clearly the employees cannot agree.

So if person 1 has requested the time off before person 2 then they should get.
It's first come first served, and not just days but also hours/ minutes should be taken into consideration.

Redskyatwhatever · 03/10/2023 09:11

I’ve worked in teams where only 1 person can be off at a time, but that is usually for whole weeks not for a day or so. Does that mean that no one else in the team can even have a day off if someone else has booked that week off, it sounds incredibly inflexible if so. I also worked somewhere that taking annual leave during a particular month was not allowed ( operational reasons) but even they allowed someone to book time off for a sibling’s wedding, the rest of us offered to help out more to ensure they wouldn’t be missed, so in most cases things can be worked around.

rookiemere · 03/10/2023 09:11

I think first to request only really works if it's not done on the same day that holiday booking opens. Otherwise going forward it just means both people will be in the spreadsheet at one minute after midnight, and the irritation will still remain.

TheFretfulPorpentine · 03/10/2023 09:20

Neither is being unfair to the other, but the manager needs to make the decision. Making decisions that may upset someone is part of a manager's job and they can't just wimp out of it. It might be better if the manager flipped a coin rather than attempting to decide on the relative merits of the applications.

k1233 · 03/10/2023 09:22

This is why I approve leave as soon as it comes through to me. Stops all of these arguments.

PepeLePugh · 03/10/2023 09:47

The manager needs to manager up and make a decision. If it was me, I would try and make it work so they both got what they wanted and suck up the extra work for a few days if possible but make it clear it is an exception and next year I would expect them to discuss it together first before booking anything and putting through requests. Declining annual leave should really be a last resort as it leads to unhappy, pissed-off employees and you are unlikely to get the best out of them.

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