I’ve inherited a difficult team - advice please

[Knitonepurlonee]

This is an admin/support team which has a reputation in the wider organisation as being quite difficult, reluctant to change, very hierarchical (ie the longer term PAs/exec assistants run the show).

Three separate managers have come and gone in the last 18 months - all citing the difficulties managing this team as the reason they’ve left. New hires to the team are not staying.

Ive been here 1 month. At the beginning I had a general team meeting to set expectations around time keeping, productivity, behaviours in the workplace etc. I was openly challenged by two members of staff around my behaviour 🤦‍♀️ ie so will YOU be coming in on time everyday, will YOU be doing x/y/x. I refused to get into a discussion with them around this as I have no reason to defend myself, they were clear they mean managers as some vague body of people.

Ive held 1-1s with all members of the team and there are very clear issues.

the older established team don’t think there are any issues in their team, it’s either the new people couldn’t cope or the managers were rubbish.

the newer team members who have stayed are clear it’s a toxic environment, bullying, gossiping, intimidation if you speak out against the clique of the “A” team.

Everyday going into work is like dealing with a bunch of teenage girls. A constant stream of women in and out of my office to either tell me Sue did this, Mary did that.

Ive got one off long term sick with her mental health because a previous manager put her on a performance plan. I’ve got one off sick with her mental health because she had an argument with another member of staff who told her she was a bully.

There is a complete refusal to adopt different ways of working because “this is how it’s done, you don’t understand our department” (to be clear these are things like switching from paper to electronic systems which other departments have been using for years).

It’s bloody chaotic and feels like the lunatics have been allowed to take over the asylum.

Please give me words of wisdom/advice!!

I bet this is NHS. Definitely public sector.

It can be done if you have a strong HR team, but you need to be resilient and take no shit.

Clear performance expectations, document everything, performance manage where needed.

Push ahead with things like electronic systems. Non-negotiable.

If restructuring isn't an option then you need to brace yourself and prepare for a shit year with the possibility of a good outcome but a horrible journey.

The only way to deal with this is to set the expectation and consistently manage to it.

• use the company values/missions/behaviours to address behavioural issues
• use the competency framework/job descriptions to address capability issues
• use the sickness policy/occ health to manage the long term sickness and either support the staff members to return and be productive or manage them out if they will never be capable of return, so that you can replace and have adequate staffing.

Follow your company policy for Performance Improvement/Disciplinary policy to the letter.

Introduce positive actions

• identify strong team members and start training their so that you have a succession plan and they are developing toward more senior roles
• praise and celebrate the good behaviours/strong performance
• identify efficiencies and process improvements and implement them. Have members of the team drive these forward so that they become the SME, they are getting buy in from their colleagues, they are using their direct experience of doing the job to influence the outcome.

At times you will be hated by some of the team. You may have complaints raised against you, you will have pushback and you will feel like you're hitting your head against a wall. You'll also have team members who finally get an opportunity to shine, you see that opportunities are being offered and rise to that challenge.

Consistency is the key word, if you decide you're doing monthly 1:1s then you HAVE to do them, if you set objectives with a deadline to achieve then you HAVE to keep to that deadline, if you offer training then you HAVE to deliver it. So be careful what you commit to and ensure you have a plan.

Can you get a small group of the team to implement the change to digital. The people doing the job will know the issues and solutions. I’m guessing only the people who want this change will volunteer for it.

The toxic team needs smashing up. But nobody will do it, so I would just try to move on yourself.

Do you think this is a democracy? It’s not. It’s a workplace. There’s no voting here. I have been employed to implement these changes. You can work with me in this or you will be sent formal warnings.”

They say 'culture eats strategy for breakfast' and it's so true. If you try to divide and conquer or carry out (legitimate) perf review, beware the malicious grievance.

I'd be tempted to run a short improvement project but work with them so they don't feel it's being done 'to' them. If you are public sector there may be a central team who can support you with organising and structuring this. Log all the tasks the team has to do, ask them about bottlenecks/issues and then ask them how they'd solve them. Build joint purpose. Easier said than done I know and relentlessly negative people can be really toxic. I feel your pain. Good luck!

Thank you all!

To answer some questions

• yes public sector
• previous managers handover was essentially “good luck, you’ll need it”
• ringleaders will openly challenge in meetings ie if I was to say I’ve noticed there is an issue around delivery of x/y/x this week they will argue back that there is no issue or that x/y/x isn’t important
• My manager is in support of change and a restructure. Essentially some of their working practices are so out of date that if brought into line with the organisation we could absolutely look at job roles and potential savings (ie no we do not need someone to manually fold and post letters anymore!)
• 1 member of the team is currently on a performance management plan but HR have asked for it to be halted because they’ve gone to occy health about their mental health

I bet this is NHS. I feel your pain. I also manage several very “challenging” and entrenched personalities within a team and it can be SO hard. Sending you 🍷 and solidarity

I wouldn’t want to say 👀

@Knitonepurlonee 😆. I’m taking the glass of wine back and sending you the bottle.

Re the teen girl / mean girl behaviour - do you have clearly set out values and behaviours?

Pinpoint where it talks about interpersonal behaviour in the workplace and all that - does this reflect and live the values? If not, it's something for the 1-1s and PIPs.

Bear in mind that some of them may have seen multiple managers turn up, start bollocking people about 30 seconds waiting for the computer to start up whilst ignoring the hour and a half that was done unpaid the day before - and being nowhere to be seen before 10 on Monday or after 4 on a Friday. They may also have had established and successful systems trashed because the incoming managers don't (won't) understand the complex dependencies between a, b, c and x, y. z and how t interacts with all of the above.

And then that manager gets promoted out and another one comes along who wants everything changed again to align precisely with their appraisal objectives for next year's payrise whilst the support team get told there's no money.

Add in that it appears you are clearly there to plan redundancies (the 'look at job roles and potential savings' you so casually slipped in there) - is it any wonder why they treat all managers with suspicion?

Have you been appointed with the expectation that you will manage this team into better work practices? Is that in writing anywhere? Who will support you in that, and how much authority do you have?

If those things aren't clear, you'll struggle - you may as well just join in with them for an easy life.

If you clearly have support - what is the low-hanging fruit? the easier, things to change? e.g. if going to online work, that's pretty clear cut and if they refuse you put them on a performance management plan. Do you have the ability to move a couple of them into different teams, to divide and conquer? Is there anyone you think will be on your side who dares not speak up right now? Get to know those people, and chip away at the rest.

Big change either needs dramatic, big steps (and I'm guessing you don't have that power) or you chip, chip, chip away by starting with the easy stuff.

Oh, and if they challenge anything in a meeting, don't get into an argument. If it's clearly your decision to make, repeat it, and say people can meet you after the meeting to discuss one to one. If it's more about values/behavior, keep repeating it - we are all professionals and we expect everyone to meet these standards.
If it's a one-to-one conversation, turn their comments back - why would someone want to come in late? Aren't they worried about being unprofessional?

And always, always, follow up with an email to confirm the outcome of the meeting. Don't do a blow-by-blow account - just "after discussion, I confirmed that xxx would happen from now on."

Been there done that, got rid of the troublemakers in the NHS. Have also watched the process happen in a school as a governor.

None of the nice stuff about Team Journeys works, it’s complete bullshit in this scenario.

Relentless holding EVERYONE to account. In meetings, in 1 to 1s. If you say there is an issue and they say there is no issue - you need hard data which clearly shows there is an issue. If they try whataboutery, tell them that the current issue is X and we are not talking about Y. Don’t let them own a conversation - if they are asking if you are going to be in on time every day, respond by saying that’s none of their business. Notes of every meeting followed up asap by email. Do NOT go on the defensive - make them explain themselves every time. You need back up of HR and seniors, who are usually pretty happy that someone else is prepared to be the bad guy.

I use the “we have a duty to make best use of public money” line a lot for not putting up with wasters.

Once you hold their feet to the fire they generally fold pretty quickly, as they can’t cope with being on the back foot.

Divide and conquer. Lots of 1:1 conversations about expectations. Don't try to build a team if it's being dominated by trouble makers.

Restructure and get rid of the problem individuals. There needs to be a proper reset. No incremental management will solve this. If your bosses will not back you move on to something else

I have just inherited a team under very similar circumstances. The ringleader has gone off sick and raised a grievance against me for holding her to account about her behaviour. I feel like HR and my boss have no idea how to proceed. Public sector and this person is a serial offender for going off sick whenever she is told something she doesn't want to hear. I feel rather hopeless about it all. This thread has at least given me a modicum of hope.

What about getting occupational health in yourself alongside HR? They can be on your "side" as much as the employees.

Sounds like a "fun" situation. Do you enjoy the rough and tumble challenge? If not I'd be tempted to run for the hills 🤣

I ve been in this crap situation number of times - I am a consultant 😫

with any change, where possible try to involve them (especially the tricky ones); I personally wouldn’t say “what my expectations are”, I would build the Ways of Working together with them . For example how would they like to communicate, collaborate or escalate etc...

If after this you can’t change them, then there is a Leadership issue (or lack of!)

In any case as some PPs said you definitely need some sort of support from above (if anything to cover your back as someone will escalate against you 100000%)

good luck

When I started my current role, there were a number of staff who weren't performing, weren't coming into the office, generally contributing to the general chaos and spending most of their time on smoking breaks.

Within 3 months I'd moved them all from the coming on through a variety of short notice dismissals, compromise agreements and voluntary redundancies, and recruited a new team.

If you can speak to your HR team about supporting you with something similar I'd do that.

If you don't, all the time you will have to waste on managing inefficient staff and processes will wear you down over time and very little work will get done; 3 managers already gone, you don't want to be the next one out of the door.

The benefit of working in a public sector organisation is that you HR and policies/procedures to help you manage this. The downside is that it takes forever to actually sack anyone… but it is achievable.

Your staff member off long term sick because they were put on a plan, needs to be considered under medical incapability and the attendance policy.

The others you need to use 1:1’s and the behaviours framework to challenge bad behaviour.

Openly speaking to you disrespectfully in a meeting - you need to address the impact of their behaviour and use disciplinary warnings if needed.

Persistent lateness, you can look at flexible working if the hours don’t work but ultimately they need to do the hours they’re paid for or it’s disciplinary.

You’ve just got to be really really consistent.

• ringleaders will openly challenge in meetings ie if I was to say I’ve noticed there is an issue around delivery of x/y/x this week they will argue back that there is no issue or that x/y/x isn’t important

be prepared for this.
you dont need to argue with them.
reiterate, there is an Issue and you would like this solved.

Time to get your big boots on and don't take any crap.
If restructure isn't a viable first option, then hard, cold blooded compliance. This is the way that x needs to be complete, I would like yo see it by y. If its not there I would like an explanation and resolved. Rinse and repeat.

Fwiw I inherited a team like this and it was bloody hard work but it did come right in the end.

And put them all on mandatory bullying training!

You sound like you've got your head screwed on OP and that you know what you're doing. My only advice is confidence, detach, and believe in yourself. You know what the team and the business needs. Keep that in mind every time they challenge you x