I’ve inherited a difficult team - advice please

[Knitonepurlonee]

This is an admin/support team which has a reputation in the wider organisation as being quite difficult, reluctant to change, very hierarchical (ie the longer term PAs/exec assistants run the show).

Three separate managers have come and gone in the last 18 months - all citing the difficulties managing this team as the reason they’ve left. New hires to the team are not staying.

Ive been here 1 month. At the beginning I had a general team meeting to set expectations around time keeping, productivity, behaviours in the workplace etc. I was openly challenged by two members of staff around my behaviour 🤦‍♀️ ie so will YOU be coming in on time everyday, will YOU be doing x/y/x. I refused to get into a discussion with them around this as I have no reason to defend myself, they were clear they mean managers as some vague body of people.

Ive held 1-1s with all members of the team and there are very clear issues.

the older established team don’t think there are any issues in their team, it’s either the new people couldn’t cope or the managers were rubbish.

the newer team members who have stayed are clear it’s a toxic environment, bullying, gossiping, intimidation if you speak out against the clique of the “A” team.

Everyday going into work is like dealing with a bunch of teenage girls. A constant stream of women in and out of my office to either tell me Sue did this, Mary did that.

Ive got one off long term sick with her mental health because a previous manager put her on a performance plan. I’ve got one off sick with her mental health because she had an argument with another member of staff who told her she was a bully.

There is a complete refusal to adopt different ways of working because “this is how it’s done, you don’t understand our department” (to be clear these are things like switching from paper to electronic systems which other departments have been using for years).

It’s bloody chaotic and feels like the lunatics have been allowed to take over the asylum.

Please give me words of wisdom/advice!!

That sounds reslly difficult and a mental strain. Sounds toxic.

My friend worked in a similar team. She dealt with it by finding the couple of people causing the most problems, split them up and then moved them to another department Things became better for everyone then but the work was super slower .

What happened in my friend’s team is that a couple of workers had a lot of influence and power over the project. They werent managers and they basically knew the project inside out and could make or break it.

i dont mean to be rude but most managers Dont have that, the workers do, in the above case anyway. You’re dealing with a toxic team and this might be unbreakable.

I've been in this situation. What worked for me was getting buy in from my boss and senior HR business partner that we were going to tackle it but it would be a rough 2 years.

I redesigned the department and job descriptions. Everyone got a job but it was different and made specific mention of using electronic systems and modern ways of working. I then ruthlessly managed them to that job description. One of the ringleaders eventually decided to take early retirement, and I managed to manage one out on competency grounds. That took about 18 months but it isolated the other two problem people fairly well and both eventually accepted what was happening.

It was the hardest job I've ever done and I couldn't have done it without backing from my boss. It also directly led to a promotion for me ( a three grade promotion which in the NHS never happens) and really kickstarted my career progression.

I’d follow this advice OP. I’ve been there in a similar situation. I don’t think you’re going persuade change in this scenario so I’d look to restructure. You definitely need HR and management support though.

I’d also say it’s not impossible in the public sector- more difficult to pay people off but I’ve seen restructuring used on a lot of occasions to solve these sorts of problems

Sympathising here! This is one of the things I train, so OK, what I'd do - no doubt you've done it, but:

Get your manager, your manager's manager and your HRBP into a supportive peer group, maybe have action learning sets and mentoring from them. They may well have seen it all before.

Gen up on the organisations mission, vision and values - behaviours expected, etc.

Get super familiar with their job descriptions, shared team and individual objectives.

Diary and do set in stone 1-1 catch-ups with each one, where you review what they've done since last time and how they did it, and what they're going to do by the next one always referring back to those objectives.

Ensure they know if they're in danger of slipping from Meets Expectations to Below Expectations in the annual report each time.

Ensure they are fully aware of the PIP process and that it can and does get applied.

Give all support and coaching they need to get them up to speed, ensuring they understand the consequences if they don't.

Foster a learning/coaching environment at work.

Share personal development opportunities, training, e-learning availability.

Bring in the new procedures.

Introduce the changes as a done deal, not open to opinion or discussion - this is the way things are now to be done and they will get all all support to implement them.

Ensure they know there's a settling in period where mistakes are ok and can be supported and guided.

Change is often resisted because of fear of loss - of status, reputation, familiarity, comfort, success, easy life etc. It means more work. But after a bit it becomes business as usual.

The electronic thing - no business can afford to be staffed by dinosaurs and these new ways of working must be brought in, incorporated into the objectives, trained, supported etc.

It's hard ...

Eh? Then your ‘oh so wise advice’ is completely incorrect. I suggest you go back to making the tea for meetings.

I've had this. My first thought is to put relevant people on performance improvement plans. Get hr support for this. It will ruffle feathers yes but so be it. You're already suffering with things as the way they are so you might as well be suffering for doing something which will actually change the situation.

The main thing is they need to see you mean business. I would not be putting up with them coming in complaining about each other either. I'd tell them your door is open to help them navigate if they wish to make a formal complaint about x but otherwise they can sort it out between themselves.

Agreed with this, I dealt with a similar situation a few years ago. You set your standards clearly and fairly, and you hold them accountable.

It is absolutely crucial to be fair and follow whatever processes your organisation has to the letter. Otherwise you will be dragged to tribunal for unfair dismissal.

I had one take a voluntary downgrade to another role and another who decided to kick back against performance management by committing gross misconduct. If they do that, you win, and much faster than going through other processes.

The last one escalated to the point he was removed from site by police, kicking and yelling, in handcuffs, but I didn't have many problems with the others after that.

sounds challenging. Personally it sounds like you need to have a ‘fun’ session to see if you eject some team building so people can get to know each other better. To understand different working and communication styles. Then bring in some facilitators to adopt the lean concept and involve the team in the evolution of the move to electronic systems in the office to shown the why of how this can increase productivity in the long term. I’d there are
trouble makers as someone else mentioned to manage them out. But sounds like as a team you need some fun things to do like tea and cake on a Friday

I've experienced similar.
It took a tremendous impact on my own mental health and well being and I almost resigned.
Fortunately for me one member was dismissed and a couple of the others moved to different departments. Dept was eventually restructured and I also moved on.
All I can say is you won't change these people, its entrenched in their personality, they are toxic and won't see their behaviour as wrong. I feel for you.
I think it will be difficult to get your Company to agree to redundancies if public sector and the onk6 thing would be to remove the position and offer lateral moves. Good luck op.

Is this post a joke?

Depends. We have a much stronger HR team now and that combined with my refusal to tolerate permanent non-performance when I have others in the team working incredibly hard seems to be doing the the trick.

(No issue with people having the odd wobbly day/week or making mistakes, it's the feet up and barely accomplishing anything for weeks on end that needs to stop)

Historically our HR were always very cautious but that seems to be changing

I would sack the ones who don't accept change.

I would also sack the one who went off on a PIP. A reasonable adjustment doesn't cover this.

I know a lot of people won’t agree with me here. I would go in very soft and win them over one by one. Lead by example. Identify the most willing to work with you, and start with them first. Play the long game

@Spottywombat incredible analogy, proper made me laugh.

You say that three previous managers have tried and failed. Can you find out (preferably from them) what went on? If they've all tried the softly-softly approach and it hasn't worked, you're going to have to go in firmly with a 'We're going to bring this department into the 21st century in line with the rest of the company whether you're happy about it or not' approach. New broom, sweep firmly. If there's any way of negotiating a financial incentive for swift completion of the transfer from paper to digital I might offer it as a carrot. Times are hard, people need the money.

I'd ask for support from HR and my manager to work on a strategy that would probably include identifying the main opposition and splitting the clique up. So perhaps, if it's a big organisation, a couple could be transferred to other departments. Possibly a redundancy or two on the back of anticipated efficiencies created by going electronic. Performance reviews all round: use them to send strategic shots across bows. As others have said, identify a couple of hungry juniors and give them more responsibility so that the power balance shifts and the old guard see their situation as less stable than they thought.

Good luck. It won't make you popular with everyone, but I've worked in cliquey departments and there will be good staff quietly cheering you on.

Take a bit of time to Learn the inside out in how things currently work, from lots of sources . Why things done in certain way. then decide what changes you would like. Have individual meetings , give people tasks with implementing changes, could certain people have some responsibility for making it happen? Then not all us and them?
Some of the old guard might need buttering up a bit, don't see this as weakness of your part, say you need them to make the changes work (but the changes are happening)
Move desks physically round , it might just freshen things up.

Bringing in the electronic system will probably solve most of the problems - the newer staff will be capable, and amenable to it, and excel. The bedded in staff will either adapt and be humbled to shut up or will leave.

Can you divide and conquer?

Is the workload something that can be broken up into streams?

For example, month 1, team 1, will be moving to the new ways of working, month 2, team 2 and so one. Leave the least important tasks to the end and those that are resistant to change can stay with the told system and low value tasks.

Get management & HR backing and awareness that you will lose a few (sick leave, quitting etc), along the way.

Clearly state, the department has be tasked with change and that is what is expected by. We don't have a choice in this matter as it is essential for business continuity. I would also you all to embrace the change. If you feel that this is not right for you, please talk to me and we can consider transfers or relocations.

We're giving the newest person, aged 20, a high profile project to deliver using their flair for social media, video, IT. New kit, new ways of doing things, new ways to respond, a fading away of the old ways.

My boss I brilliant. She keeps her top chicken status with lots of uncomfortable 'why' questions.

Take out the leader and the others will slowly fade away

It depends if your boss and HR support you.

If they do, then this is what I did in this situation:

1. Make sure expectations around behaviour are clear and and writing for everyone, either as part of your organisation's behaviours or as as reasonable instruction by management.

2.. During one-to-ones and appraisals discuss and document failures to adhere to the behaviour policy and follow with a performance management system with anyone who.fails. Reward good behaviour publically.

1. If you still have problems after that, have a reorganisation of the team with fewer jobs on offer. Everyone has to reapply for the new roles. Make sure your organisation will allow you to create more new roles with different titles/responsibilities after a period of time following any redundancies so you're not working with fewer people long-term.
2. Ensure behaviours and any performance issues are key scoring metrics and obviously mark down those where you have proof of their failures in these areas.
3. Go through the redundancy process and get rid of the ones who are still a problem.
4. Some of the problem people will have left before then - make sure when you re-recruit, you ask recruitment questions which highlight their behaviours in a work situation and, if you can, phone their former bosses and ask them specifically how their interpersonal skills were.

Lead them, don't manage them.

There's truth in the saying that leaders lead but managers just manage.

Understand their roles and look to coach and develop them individually according to their potential.

If you tell and not coach then you'll just get push back and defiance. Sell them on the positives of the changes so they know what's in it for them and become committed rather than begrudgingly compliant.

Are there any leadership courses you can take as part of your own development?

Good luck.

Also lol.

Seriously though, op, are you public sector and have you been brought in specifically to shake things up? How much HR and senior leadership backing do you have? How resilient are you?

It can be done. There is some excellent advice here - ignoring the tea and cakes/team vision type posts.

Before starting though, and assuming you are public sector (because anywhere else they would just have sacked half the team ages ago), think about whether you really want this challenge. It's a difficult way to live for a couple of years. You may thrive on that, you may not.

If senior leadership are behind you, then analyse your team carefully to identify the ringleaders and how best to get rid of them. HR will support almost anything in some places and almost nothing in others.

You have my sympathies I've been doing similar for the last three years in my business but magnified as we have 80+ employees.

What I've learnt is write a strategy with goals and end dates then change things little my little.

Identify the team members that can help you change things, so if someone is good a IT get them to help with planning and implementation of the IT system.

Keep growing your team little by little find ways to get more of them inside.

Set behavioural standards and rules and follow through with them. No tolerance for bullying.

If something doesn't work don't wallow, think why it didn't and try something else.

Finally Don't give up!