Being open with your manager about plans to have children (or more children)

[barcelona87]

I'm asking in the context of thinking of ideas for an MSc Occupational Psychology research project and want to test whether there is something interesting to say about this.

My hunch is people generally don't feel comfortable openly discussing it and this could impact career planning / the support your manager can give you.

Similarly, for all the managers out there - would you feel comfortable discussing this if an employee raised it in the context of their career?

Would love to know what others think! At this stage I'm just brainstorming ideas...

Thanks!

This is a terrible idea!

So as a manager you have two direct reports. One says they plan to have a child next year, the other doesn’t say anything. An opportunity arises for one of the two to undergo additional study which may lead to a promotion. You offer it to the person not planning the child because the other may not be able to complete the training given their stated plans.

Person 1 does not conceive when they hope to and complains they have been discriminated against. Which they have. You have no defence and the damages are potentially unlimited. Suddenly your own career is on the line because you have exposed your employer to £££s.

Or you ignore the conversation and offer the training opportunity to person 1 because they are the best person for the promotion. They do conceive easily and are unable to complete the course. The cost of the training is wasted and your boss finds out that you knew all along that Person 1 was planning a maternity leave at that point. Your judgment is called into question.

Its a no win situation for both manager and employee, and best avoided all round!

This is an interesting one- I've never talked about family plans with an employer. But there are so many reasons why it might be helpful to do so IF you could trust that your employer was genuinely supportive.

Having seen it from both sides, I think employers are often more supportive than employees fear. I had a week off with a miscarriage about 20 years ago and pretended to my employer that I had flu because I was worried that it would signal I was TTC and count against me- now I'm the senior person and am still in touch with my manager from back then, I think I was far too paranoid and that in fact they would have been nothing but kind and supportive. But the culture of not telling makes this so difficult.

Employers could start by publicising their maternity policy clearly on their website and job ads. It seems a scandal to me that this isn't standard and is a big red flag for whether they're genuinely family friendly.

OP, you gave some reasons about how a woman could be benefitted by discussing her plans for children with her employer. But have you identified the potential negatives? Why do you think only women should discuss with their employer? (Plenty of men are SAHP for a while including my DP).

Do you think employers would truly welcome such a discussion and actively support itor do you think many would silently mark the person as possibly leaving soon and therefore pass over them for any opportunities? Why would I discuss this (an event which may not happen anyway and could harm my career) with anyone apart from the potential baby's father? There is little "win" in maternity leave for the employer (unless you work for a large supportive corporate) so no way would I make my intentions known.

I'm a manager, I have around 300 staff. If someone wanted to talk to me about their plans for children then I'd feel comfortable, I'm a mum myself. But it's a hypothetical situation, many changes happen over even short periods. Accommodating work from home, part time working, consolidated hours etc may be fine now - but who knows when it'll be everyone back in the office, full time, extended hours etc.

I have a few friends that took 10+ years of actively trying to become parents!!!

These are fascinating replies, thanks everyone!

Most of the responses have been based on feared consequences - for either the employee or the manager, and I do understand those fears.

I work for a very supportive organisation, and wouldn't have these fears (at least not to any significant extent). Plenty of people - male and female - have taken maternity/parental leave and have been well-supported by leadership. Some have even been promoted while on leave.

If you worked for this kind of an organisation, would that make a difference?

Also, a few people have challenged why I'm only asking about women. I wasn't - I'm actually quite interested in male employees too.

Even if they are supportive, you are making it almost impossible not to unconsciously discriminate against you. Because they're just going to be... waiting... for you to announce. Which you may never do. It is a lose-lose proposition.

I think a miscarriage you're actually already having is different. There is a legitimate case for telling your employer so that they understand what support you may need right now. It similarly comes with a risk that they will mark your card as taking mat leave soon, but at least you're not talking about a theoretical future pregnancy which may never come to pass.

Same here - I had to tell my employer because of all the time off I needed for IVF, which they gave without hesitation and I didn’t have to make any time up at all, or take as holiday. They were brilliant.

I work for a very supportive organisation, and wouldn't have these fears (at least not to any significant extent). Plenty of people - male and female - have taken maternity/parental leave and have been well-supported by leadership. Some have even been promoted while on leave.

This explains a lot...🙄

I did as it was down the IVF route and I needed extra time off for appointments and tests etc. my manager (male & owner of the business) was incredibly supportive. Gave me the time off I needed and send me flowers & champagne after the birth.

I'm aware not everyone can do this but it felt right for me! I could of kept it all a secret.

I don't understand the eye roll. One angle is around the impact of organisational support (or real/perceived lack of) affects an employee's ability to get valuable career support and guidance.

I work for a very supportive organisation,

I also work for a very large, supportive organisation but no way would I ever discuss reproductive plans with anyone except DH. The only thing we needed to consider was if we could afford for me to go part time for several years. Once we had decided to have a baby, there was nothing else to be considered
Imagine if someone had this conversation and then it took several years to conceive. They've shared that very private information with someone at their workplace.

Employers aren't there to provide career advice though, and it's pretty infantilising to think that women need to ask their employer how to combine kids and career.

And Katrina's point is huge - however progressive your employer is, they leave themselves wide open to a discrimination case. An employer or manager who doesn't see that as a possibility is not one I'd trust with any sort of advice.

Why not just focus on women returning from maternity leave and being able to work flexibly. There should be a decent amount of literature, and as post-Covid work patterns have changed hugely, your project would be relevant.

You also keep stating talking to an employer it would be important for an employees to get career advice - employees, esp if they're career focused are quite capable of working out how they want to balance work and kids. It's infantilising to think they need advice from an employer to do that.

Sorry repeated myself!

I think my organisation would be supportive if I wanted to tell them I was planning on having another child. I wouldn’t because I didn’t tell anyone except DH, which is why my brother in law thought I’d got pregnant on purpose to coincide with his wedding when actually we’d been trying for 10 months. My concerns about work/life balance, returning to maternity leave are for me to sort with my husband based on his flexibility. The other thing is that it’s all very well and good planning, but life rarely goes to plan. People take longer to conceive than they think. People suffer losses. People have accidental pregnancies. Even when baby does come along, you might be desperate to go back to work sooner, your partner could lose their job and force you to return sooner. Baby could have additional needs meaning you need longer at home or have to reduce your hours or even change your role after baby. Even if everything goes to plan, you might just look at the logistics of it and think there’s no way I can do that job and manage a young child.

If you’re in a supportive organisation, then you can tell early, tell when you’re experiencing a loss or experiencing infertility and need extra tests. However, many women will still face discrimination after disclosing this so it shouldn’t be mandatory to disclose any of this if you’re not comfortable.

There is definitely a MSc thesis to be written looking at how workplaces support (or otherwise) women going through IVF. It's a really important topic that isn't discussed as much as it should be.

Someone I manage was open about her IVF treatment with me and her colleagues. The team was going through a stressful period. She was clear she was going to defer trying by a few months to give her the best chance. When that came around we all wanted her to be successful without a doubt all of us tried to protect her from the worst of the stress at that point. She succeeded.

Another very senior male colleague was very open about his and his partner going through IVF a little while before. Theirs wasn't successful but they then conceived naturally.

Another colleague outside my team also told me she was trying. Everyone was delighted when she announced she was expecting.

I work for a very good employer who would not discriminate. They want people to stay for their entire career and time out for kids is brief in the context of a working career.

This is the only one of the OP's reasons that makes sense. I've managed two women going through IVF and knowing about it allowed me to manage their workload and plan for contingency when they might have appointments at shirt notice during a very busy time of year. It allowed then to feel supported (I hope) and they knew their appointments wouldn't lead to undue pressure on our department or clients because we'd planned ahead for it.

But in any other circumstances I don't know why you would have that conversation with managers!

Should add that my employer has specific infertility and baby loss policies which allow for time off after certain appointments etc. so if I hadn't known I couldn't have supported her to avail of them

Hmmm whilst I can see everyone’s points, I had an amazing manager when I returned from my fist maternity leave who as part of my conversations about returning said words to the effect of “I don’t know if you want more children and I’m not asking. But here are some things you might want to think about if you are” (Was stuff like how the company worked out entitlement to enhanced maternity pay, and therefore how long I needed to be back before a second mat leave would be paid the same way as my first). No idea if she had similar chats with men on the team but if was helpful to me, especially as I was off work systems at the time and couldn’t look anything up.

I’ve fully discussed it with my boss, but my boss is also my partner so was inevitable. Appreciate that’s not the norm though 😆

@barcelona87

If you worked for this kind of an organisation, would that make a difference

I do work for an organisation like this. I'm exec level. We are a fabulous employer. Very family friendly. All flexible working in place.

But discussions about fertility and family planning are not for the workplace and managers are not trained or qualified to advise on this.

If someone who reports to me asked me for advice in this area I would refer them to our employee assistance programme.

No. You’ve got to give women the same opportunities as anyone else, even if they plan to have children, there is no guarantee it’ll
happen. In which case, your ‘realistic’ career plan ie career delay, would have been for nothing. So no, really really not.

I can't imagine a scenario in which I would be pleased for a direct report to raise another child as a hypothetical with me. It might never happen. It might happen weeks, months or years from now. What am I supposed to do with the information? I'm glad I didn't share thoughts about having a second child with my manager as it never happened and that was something I dealt with privately.

Having IVF is not a hypothetical but an active medical treatment and I agree that's an interesting area for research.

Well I did have plans it turned out I was infertile so having such a conversation would have been pointless and would have made me look rather foolish (imo).

(I was asked about my plans in my very first interview - I was only 19! He did prefix it "I'm not actually allowed to ask this but...")