Not enjoying work - how can I improve the situation?

[LouisaPeanut]

The TLDR here is: if you’ve been in a job where you don’t really like your manager, how do you get over that?

I’ve been in my job 5 months now. I’m still getting over the adjustment between a role where I confidently knew what I was doing (had been there 10 years) and a new type of role that was a steep learning curve. Holding my own, but feeling like a fish out of water. Very minimal training.

But the sticking point for me is my manager. She’s just a personality clash. Talks about herself endlessly, personal things, all boastful. I am very introvert and struggle with those sorts of extroverts who just throw too much information at you. I end up looking rude, so I’m exhausted trying to hide that. And she’s so patronising. There’s an aspect of my job that I’m very good at, and have a lot of experience in. She chooses to give the bare minimum information away for things I have no idea about (“speak to Tim.” ….Tim who, about what?!) but will go into excessive detail for things I know about (“speak to Tim Smith from strategic finance to find out whether we’ve got the reference documents from the 2022 release. The reference documents list this information and to use them you for this….”). It ends up being super patronising. I’m already struggling with the feelings of stupidity from being new and I feel like she is deliberately doing this; the more I have to ask and quiz her then the more she can boast about what she knows, but she doesn’t want there to be a be a chance I know more about something than her.

On top of that, I’m working on a project with her boss and he’s awful. So busy, doesn’t have time to explain anything, needs to remind me constantly that it’s on his to do list. Asked me to put a meeting in his diary for “next week” even though he’s blocked out for at least a month, and then made a snarky response when I’d put the meeting in at a time he was already booked.

These people are just awful. It’s a really unpleasant working environment. The culture is just a bit cliquey and everyone is full of their own self importance. I really want to try and improve things. Anyone have any advice?

Sounds horrible for you @LouisaPeanut I don't have any specific suggestions or instant fixes I'm afraid, management like that is appalling for staff morale. When they care so little for staff welfare there's nothing you can do.

I would have added a note to the invitation with boss's boss "sorry, I've struggled to find any free slots for the meeting you asked for, if this slot isn't convenient do feel free to counter with an alternative"

I think the bosses boss has been there a wee while. He may not have been in the post for very long but certainly in the organisation for a long time. Ironically, he is generally disliked but I can’t get on board with the standard reasons. I actually quite like him, it’s just working alongside him is proving very difficult to navigate! I double booked him because I had no other option. He told me to put a slot in next week, he doesn’t have a single gap in his diary for a month, so I picked a slot the other six people could do.

My boss has only been in the role 6 months. She’s technically on secondment. But secondment usually means permanent pending paperwork.

I think the main trouble with navigating my boss is that it’s just a personality clash. She’s annoying, but that’s subjective. I’ve tried recently to do more without involving her but she wants to be involved in absolutely everything. She’s definitely a micromanager, and that’s ok I’ve dealt with those before, but I wish she wouldn’t just because I’d like to have some space from her. I asked another colleague for some help with something and she saw it in our diaries and invited herself along, because I think her FOMO kicked in, so now I’m dreading having to sit and listen to her talk about herself for an hour, and squeeze in five minutes of relevant help at the end. There’s only so much faux interest I can put on.

@daisychain01 I should have done that really, putting it back to him is a good suggestion. I think I put a “can you make this time work?” message which opened an opportunity for a “no of course I can’t” reply.

BUT HE IS SO BUSY. Literally, speaking to him has to be

@Convincemebob sorry that cut me off… speaking to him has to be scheduled. He doesn’t reply to emails or teams messages very often.

I didn’t have a probation period.

Yeah that’s fine, I’m getting that, but what would you have done? Suggesting a time seemed like a logical solution to me?

I think you need to try really, really hard to take the emotion out of this one. Don't look for motivation behind what they're doing - you seem to attach your views of people's motivations very quickly; I always find it useful to remember that we never know
more than half of what is going on with colleagues and what might en driving their behaviour. You find her boastful, maybe she's insecure. You find her telling you huge detail about stuff you know patronising; maybe she's just inconsistent and has realised (or responded to feedback?) that she didn't give enough detail on other stuff.Boss's boss is talking about his to do list? Maybe he's feeling defensive or guilty that he hasn't got to this yet and he's trying to show that he hasn't forgotten.

I don't know - but also, neither do you. So it's best to detach from these kinds of annoying management situations and focus on the facts and the task.

So you just deal with what's in front of you. She gives you a huge amount of unnecessary detail? That doesn't affect your ability to do the task. So just smile and get on with it. She doesn't give you enough detail? Then it's your job to prompt her with exactly what you need to be able to do your job. Boss's boss gave you an instruction that isn't possible to fulfil? Drop an email saying 'You asked me to book a meeting for next week but you're solidly booked for a month - is there somewhere you can squeeze this in, or shall I book a slot later in August?' I'll admit, I would have found it incredibly annoying when you put in a meeting when the time was already booked with no acknowledgement that I couldn't do the slot.

But first and foremost, stop labelling. You appear to want to give everyone, including yourself, a concrete label that will enable you to put them in a category. Your boss is in the category of person you find exhausting. I wonder if part of that is a self-fulfilling prophecy because you now expect to find her exhausting because of how you've categorised her in your head. Try being a little less rigid and give her space for complexity.

I think OPs problem is that that busy boss doesn’t make himself available for communication. Presumably he’d have been annoyed if the meeting was made when he was free in a months time too (rather than the week he wanted). He has to bear some considerable responsibility for this. Staff working for you in the diary management role have to be able to communicate with you.

And honestly if he is asking for a meeting with six people in a time frame where his diary is booked out, then he doesn’t have a handle on his workload.

Why would you say sorry?

@JassyRadlett

I wonder if part of that is a self-fulfilling prophecy because you now expect to find her exhausting

I think you might be spot on about this. Because I have found her exhausting over the last five months, I now expect every interaction to be. I posted today because I’ve started dreading working because I’m having to dig so deep to find faux interest. But there’s every chance perhaps she won’t be.

Some good advice in your post thank you. I think reframing things is a good idea.

I think this is partly right and the boss's boss is clearly not operating effectively; without more info who knows what the drivers for that are.

But OP can only do what is in OP's power here. Send an email setting out the options (he clears some time next week and she'll wrangle the other participants, or the meeting happens in a month.) Follow it up in a day or two with a polite - 'I've booked a slot later in August as a backup but let me know if you're able to free up any space next week.'

That's all OP can do. She's conscientiously tried to fulfil the request, she's politely chased, and if he kicks off she can ask what he would prefer her to have done given the situation so she can deal with it better next time.

I’ve worked with lots of senior and exec management with solidly booked meetings, and almost all of them give you some indication of the things that can be ignored. Either in the conversation itself or notes in their calendar. Doesn’t help that he doesn’t have a PA either.

Things were so much simpler when I could just walk to someone’s desk and have an actual conversation with them.

If boss's boss is senior they will have an assistant who takes care of diary management - can you use them for the practicalities of booking your meeting? They tend to be great at that and would provide the liaison with their boss rather than you doing that.

@JassyRadlett I think that’s what I’ll do now. Book him a slot when everyone is free (which is insane now that it’s holiday season but I’ve got a pretty good handle on who the necessary participants are) and just send him a message explaining with an additional question on whether this is something he can move out of his diary.

@Convincemebob “double booking” isn’t that rare in my organisation. I get a fair amount of overlapping requests. And requests on my days off which are very clearly labelled and signposted. I just send an apology back.

She’s on mat leave annoyingly and they’ve not backfilled. So he’s flying without a PA! Bit of a nightmare.

Communication sounds awful and it sounds like it's very hierarchical - just because they're senior they have an overinflated ego and think they can talk to more junior staff like dirt under their shoe. Zero excuse for that, including being busy with their "very important job".

I wouldn’t double book a meeting, especially when you are inconveniencing six other attendees and blocking out time in their diaries they may need for other meetings, training etc. If you are in the same building and he doesn’t respond to emails, just go up and speak to him, or in extremis, diary stalk and ‘bump into’ him as he comes out of a meeting.