How much sick leave will an employer tolerate?

[Sunshine543]

I know every workplace and job will be different but I'm getting myself very worried and would like some advice if anyone knows?
My husband had a breakdown last year and had 6 months off work. He has been on a phased return for another 6 months doing reduced workload and 100% working from home . So currently not been able to work properly for a year.
He is in senior management and has a team of 5 people who report to him.

At this moment in time he is worse then he was originally due to a number of reasons and he feels he needs more time off. He has been trying to work as best has he can , currently doing about 10% of what his original high paying job was. But its causing him huge stress and he isn't functioning well and needs a break.
He's mentioned the time of 6 weeks to me but that's how it started before and ended up just extending it and extending it for 6 months.
Firstly will he even get paid this time? Secondly how much are they going to tolerate of this when he can't give them any guarantees that he will ever get better ?
They are paying him a high wage for doing nothing , and no-one else is doing his job whilst he's off. His team and everyone else have just managed without him and I am sure they are just used to him not being there

It entirely depends on the workplace OP, so no one can really answer this for you. However, I'd be surprised if the employer allowed another lengthy period of absence without starting to take steps that could lead to your husband's dismissal.

As you say yourself, it depends very much on the employer.

The mental health team he's under has said that they wouldn't be able to dismiss him as it would come under disability discrimination, but I still don't trust that. Whilst obviously I feel incredibly sorry for my husband ( he's worked so hard for this career) I also have to look at it from the employers point of view
He is not able to do his job , this has gone on for a very long time, and is ongoing with no end. I really would not blame them for wanting to get someone to replace him who can actually do the job!

It is entirely individual. His employer could have a policy e.g. to start a capability dismissal after six months but choose not to deploy it because of their history with him/the difficulty of recruiting a replacement/numerous other factors.

That said, if he's the thick end of a year in and his mental health is if anything worse, that's not a good sign. A disability diagnosis entitles you to reasonable adjustments, but not to being kept on if you simply can't do the job.

The mental health team is talking bollocks. If your husband is not capable of doing his role even with reasonable adjustments he can be dismissed notwithstanding that he has a disability. There is nothing in law which says an employer needs to pay an employee who becomes disabled forever even if they are unable to work. If your husband’s employer has a PHI scheme though they may be more willing to keep him on the books but off work for a much longer period as the insurers will pick up the cost of this not the company itself.

I appreciate you will be worried about finances but if your husband has been unwell for a year, it may be time to recognise that this role is no longer the right one for him and that the stress which goes with a highly paid role is not good for his mental health. He may start to turn the corner more quickly if he can let go of these expectations and obligations and consider pivoting to a lifestyle which is more supportive of his health needs?

Thanks for your comments, it's as I thought. They've told him repeatedly hes such an asset to the company and that's why they've treated him so well with this and been so understanding so far, but if it's obvious he can no longer do the the job then surely there comes a time when they will not be as supportive .

Regarding changing his Job to less demanding etc, the work he is doing right now couldn't be more undemanding, it's just answering a few emails here an there , probably an hours work a day. Plus he is at home. He'd worked very hard previously in the role to get it running so smoothly

OP, your husband's mental health team has given wrong advice. A company can dismiss an employee covered by the Equities Act. If the employers can demonstrate they have made all possible adjustments and the decision to dismiss is proportionate, then I am sorry but his employers could dismiss your DH.

That's not true. My friend's dh went off sick for 6 months because of "depression" (he wanted to be a "world famous rock musician", his words, and didn't want to "just" be a factory worker). He sat around strumming his guitar and singing (awful) homemade songs all day for half a year, then said he couldn't possibly go back as he was just SO depressed and quite rightly his company let him go.

Honestly I think if he's unable to handle an hour of very low-demand work a day, the likelihood is that he will end up dismissed as they have offered above what would be classed as a reasonable adjustment. It sounds like he's totally unable to work at all, and it may be appropriate for him to move onto disability benefits once the sick pay runs out.

His current duties may be undemanding but he will still be feeling the pressure of knowing that he is on a phased return back to his former role which was presumably much more high powered?

Well, yeah, his team have taken up all the slack and tried to manage their best so far, but they're going to need someone to replace your dh to best help the company and the team. He kind of needs to decide sooner rather than later what he's going to do, it's kind of not fair on those working harder to take up his slack to be left waiting for months and months on end for him to make a decision. If he;s truly that massively stressed by such a small increase in workload, the job's not for him.

Yes sorry OP just because he qualifies as disabled under the Equality Act doesn’t mean he is protected from dismissal. Does his employer pay him via an insurer (PHI), if so that is more promising that they will be more patient than otherwise as it isn’t costing them directly but ultimately long term absence tolerance is at the employer’s discretion.

Are you aware of any colleagues having long term absence and how they were handled?

They have said something about insurance to him. They haven't used it yet but they are able to do so I believe .

The mental health team he's under has said that they wouldn't be able to dismiss him as it would come under disability discrimination

Katrinawaves is right, the mental health team are talking rubbish. If someone becomes in capeable of carrying out their role, they can be dismissed.

I'd advise your husband to look up the sickness policy in his company and see what he might be paid.

I would say if he had another long period of absence for the same reason as before then they would start a referral to occupational health (if they hadn't already done so) to look at dismissing on Ill health/medical grounds. The mental health team are incorrect.

I would tend to agree that this far into leave and with no improvement in health and an inability to tolerate even very light duty, it might be time to think about resigning, if financially feasible. Better to have resignation than dismissal on his record, and the more time goes on the more unlikely it is he'd be able to successfully resume his role even if he made a full recovery mental health-wise. The expectations of a senior leader are higher than of a run-of-the-mill employee and his position won't be tenable if he's lost his employer's support.

If you are dependent on his regular income...then tbh you are probably looking at having to significantly rework your lifestyle, because he may never be fit to work in the same kind of job as before.

It doesn't sound like there is any realistic prospect of him ever being able to resume his job?

As pp have already pointed out, don't rely on his mental health team to provide accurate employment law advice. It's not their area of expertise and they've given him bad advice.

He's currently in the middle of a relapse due to a medication change and the medication they have put him on isn't working.
He had recovered very well at the 6 month mark which is why he went back and was planning on the phased return to not last long, but here we are now 6 months later where he is very poorly again and can't do the job

If they are going to need to claim UC, resigning could jeopardise that and he may need to let the incapability process work through to dismissal.

Once they get his medication correct he should be back to "normal " again, but it's all the unknowns and it takes a long time

With regard to resigning rather than being dismissed, it might be better to get some advice on this should your DH need to claim disability benefits of any kind he might be in a better position if he had been dismissed on health grounds.

OP, I’ve had experience of this from two sides; my husband had a severe mental health crisis that saw him out of work for three months, then back for three months, then out for six weeks initially, and then hospitalized for six months before a phased return over three months. I’m also the HR manager of a large organisation where we regularly see people on extended leave due to mental health issues.

With my husband, he works in a very stressful industry and, like your husband, is very senior. Complete workaholic- doing ridiculous hours. He burnt out completely. We were terrified about what would happen to his job but his work were fantastic. They paid him throughout, supported him through a phased return, we’re understanding when he went off again, and then gave him paid time off for further appointments. It was such a huge relief.

However, I would have liked if he had resigned once he was in a better headspace. He’s been back at work for four years now and all is going well, but it’s still a very stressful job. He’s now better equipped to deal with it, thanks to all of the therapy.

In terms of my own job, and I can only speak for my company, we are very tolerant of people in genuine crisis. Once they’re engaging with us, occupational health, and their own doctors, our priority is doing everything we can to help them get well (eg, pay them in full, give them space). We have rarely gone down the capability route but it’s usually the employee who comes to the conclusion that they’re unable to continue. I would say that 90% of people who have been out for three months plus come back.
That said, we’re a very big organisation so not always comparable to smaller companies.

It’s a very tough time for you.

My advice would be to look at what your plan B is as a family and give your husband breathing space where he can decide for himself that working like this isn’t helpful by him and resigning would be beneficial for him. I know with mine, the stress of feeling he’d let me and our family down if he resigned caused even more stress. We agreed what alternatives we would look at (living on my income but seriously cutting back, downsizing for a smaller mortgage, him moving into a less senior role and taking a pay cut). I understand that’s not easy.

While I can’t say what his company will do, my advice to him would be to stay on top of things like fit notes, occupational health appointments etc.

As a couple, you do need to look at alternatives to your husband going back, or ideas for if his employers dismiss on capability.

Best of luck, it’s a shitty situation for you both.

Six months is a pretty long time for a phased return, to still only have progressed to an hour per day.

If he hasn't been able to work at his "normal" level at any point in the last 6 months, is it realistic to expect he will suddenly be able to after another 6 weeks/6 months? Presumably his healthcare team made a similar assurance a year ago when this all started?

These are the questions his employer will start asking if they aren't already.

Are occupational health involved?

You obviously know his health better than we do. But kindly, OP: if he's going to be dependent on precisely calibrated medication for the foreseeable, and vulnerable to a serious deterioration if his medication gets thrown off, is a stressful senior role sustainable for him in future?

It's very individual but if after a full 12 months of sick leave and reduced hours he still isn't ready to return I suspect most employers will be expecting the employee to stand down. Guessing he's public sector