grievance outcome please explain this to me

[Alexxxy]

I work in a toxic environment I have reported bullying and discrimination (disability) and the main outcome is worded as below:
Falsely making claims of bullying and discrimination towards members of the team. PARTIALLY UPHELD.
Where would you go from here please advise needed thanks.

That's interesting. Can you appeal and give extra evidence? Isn't an appeal just over the evidence already submitted? I mean, I don't so I'm asking.

@Gracewithoutend

Yes new evidence is grounds for appeal.

www.acas.org.uk/appealing-a-disciplinary-or-grievance-outcome

Wouldn't that be, again I'm asking, I don't know, but wouldn't that be new evidence that hadn't been available to the appellant before the hearing. Not things they knew but decided not to include?

@Gracewithoutend

It would be an unwise employer who didn't consider the evidence.

But as an employer I would be cross at my time being wasted.

Indeed. It seems a rum way of doing things not submitting all your evidence but I guess the op had her reasons.

Thanks for your help.

I would advise if this is the route you want to go, to file early conciliation with ACAS asap. You have 3 months less one day, from the date the incident took place, to file a claim with the employment tribunal, should your workplace not budge and you are looking for some compensation to leave. You can appeal a grievance even if you have triggered EC with ACAS. A grievance is not even necessary (though apparently, advised).

If you have written evidence of discrimination, it should be an easier case (do take some free legal advice). Constructive dismissal is very difficult to win at an employment tribunal, is the advice I received, so I was advised not to quit. If you have a paper trail of actual discrimination, and they don't have a legitimate aim, it really should be relatively easy for you.

It's a stressful process. Think carefully about it. Don't accept their first offer. They'll lowball you, to an insulting level. You'd be surprised how long it takes to have solicitors look at your case, weigh up the merits and likely chances of success, even if you're with a union.

Move quick, op. And don't allude to anything, to your workplace. Let it take them by surprise. You may find they suddenly get the wind up them when ACAS become involved, they don't all, though. Triggering early concilation with ACAS, also buys you extra time. Sorry this has happened to you.

The sub-text to Partially Upheld is

We're grudgingly acknowledging your grievance but we aren't prepared to give you the whole point.

it's a message, they aren't supportive of you and unlikely to make life any easier for you going forward.

Presumably now they've shared the outcome they have set up a meeting to discuss the next steps?

I don't disagree with this, but to be fair and give them the benefit of the doubt...

It sounds like the OP has submitted a grievance, and the person/people accused have submitted counter-grievances of false accusations. That is a very common occurence, and it would not be unusual to roll together such grievances into a single investigation and report, since the subject matter cannot be separated. And given that the OP has said that they deliberately withheld relevant information from the invetsigation, it cannot be assumed that, had they provided that evidence, the employers investigation outcome might have been entirely different.

One cannot complain that an employer hasn't upheld one's complaint when one has withheld evidence that would prove the complaint and which is in one's possession. That seems such a strange thing to do.

Seperately, and it is hard to advise without understanding why evidence was withheld, I might suggest that it would be premature to go to ACAS / tribunal at this stage, because to do so the OP really would have to disclose that they have evidence which had been in their possession all along, and which they did not disclose. That smacks of bushwhacking and won't win any favour with a tribunal if it came to light that they went to the legal process without having disclosed lots of evidence in their possession at the time of original grievance. It could literally be twisted into being litigatious, and that would be very dangerous to the OP (they could be pursued for the employers legal costs).

I think that the best startegy at this stage is to submit an appeal, including the information that have in their possession, and it would be wise to explain why they didn't disclose that information at the outset or during the investigation. Technically, the employer could refuse to take new evidence, but in the circumstances it would be unwise of them to do so because that would shift the onus to them to explain why they excluded it, rather than placing it on the OP to explain why they withheld it.

OP you are not being clear

Are they saying that YOU falsely made claims of bullying and discrimination or are they saying someone else did this?

Either way how will they know it's false? It can come down to how that person felt no matter the intent (see harassment definition in the equality act) They are also on shaky ground regarding victimisation

It does read op like you’ve made claims of bullying and discrimination and someone has reported a grievance of them being false. Otherwise the word “falsely “ would not be In there. The line you posted is the result of the investigation into you making false claims. Not your claims.

they have then said the grievance that you’re making false accusations is partially true. Your claim you’ve been bullied is true, but they are saying you’ve made false claims of discrimination, they are possibly saying that to prevent you having a case for compensation.

@One cannot complain that an employer hasn't upheld one's complaint when one has withheld evidence that would prove the complaint and which is in one's possession. That seems such a strange thing to do.*

Agree with everything you've said @Quveas - however I think we're having to read between the lines a lot on this case, and being 'in the moment' on something like this to witness the sequence of events would be very revealing.

My interpretation having reviewed all the OPs posts is that they became scared and overwhelmed by the whole process, for which I have massive empathy. The process of raising a grievance is highly stressful and dehumanising. I have no way of knowing if any of what the OP submitted as evidence was incomplete, but what I do know is that bullying/harrassment messes with your brain and causes cognitive overload in amongst the stress.

The OP needs to have the meeting with their employer to talk through the outcome and determine / agree what the implications are before taking further action. I would not suggest Tribunal, what good could possibly come from it. Sounds like a "he said, she said" one person's word against the other. Better to negotiate a calm departure, with a neutral reference, for the sake of MH.

The principle with bullying and harrassment is along the lines of

It doesn't matter what the person said
It doesn't matter what the person did
what matters is how they made the person feel.

the principle of "compensation for hurt feelings" comes from this, because it isn't for the perpetrators of the discrimination to have the last word - we don't have visibility of the exact rationale as to why the OP states they suffered discrimination, these things can be nuanced and complex, but staff denying it and the employer / investigation team backing that up speaks volumes. People don't take out a grievance for discrimination lightly, it's soul-destroying.

i hope you manage to get some resolution to enable you to move forward @Alexxxy

Spot on

Thank you all for your comments they make a lot of sense. I raised informal grievance in line with employers policy. So of course I am appealing as the investigators have given the option to if I want to. I have been collecting all the evidence and I will be armed with them when attending the next investigations meeting hopefully I will get a closure. Just to add while I was waiting for investigation outcome my manager apologised to me and said she has failed me. The investigator verbal said he agrees I have been bullied but not discriminated against having said that I treat this as informal so I didn’t submit evidence partly due to my MH and lack of guidance if I make sense.

This now makes a little more sense - if you only went along the informal route then it does become "he said/she said" without all the evidence, and the investigator can only find on what they know. And to be fair also, it is entirely possible that bullying is taking place but not as a result of your protected characteristic - bullies don't need excuses!

That also confirms that since there has been no formal stages then you cannot go to ACAS or a tribunal. Based on what you say you don't actually want to "appeal" - you want to go to a formal stage.

The appeals process should give you the opportunity to add information you weren't in a position to give during the investigation. Just explain that your MH was affected by the process and you now want to clarify further what it was that convinced you of the discriminatory element of the bullying (aka 'harrassment').

For that, you will need to specify which protected characteristic under EqA2010 applied to your discrimination - eg sex, race, disability etc. that's what technically switches it from bullying which isn't formally recognised in U.K. employment law, to harassment which is formally recognised.

Sounds like your employer is taking the expedient route of denying discrimination, but it could be because you haven't been clear enough the basis of why you think it was.

I agree - quite apart from the fact of having seen it both as a manager or as a union rep, I have experienced it myself (although in that case the bully was an idiot taking me on and should have known better 😀). All the more reason to say to people that being in a union is wise, because when your head isn't in the right place, having a rep with you is vital to good outcomes.

100% with you on being in a Union, just knowing there's someone to ask for support is a safety net for sure. Glad that bully tried to pick on the wrong person and got their comeuppance!

Unfortunately they are still in post and still doing it - and there was plenty of previous history before that. They simply got moved from managing me / my service area. Bullies usually thrive on picking their victims well, which is why I was surprised she even tried it on with me - I have to be pretty much the last person you'd target. I think she was "forced" into it because she inherited our service area from a retiring manager and couldn't control it either professional or personally. She started out with "supportive hints" that it would be easier for me to take early retirement because my disability must make it soooo hard to work, and after not succeeding with that strategy she tried to make me redundant. Unfortunately for her there are two things she didn't account for - my union, and voice recorders on mobile phones (not, of course, that I would ever have thought of using a covery recording for anything other than an aide memoire because it would be quite wrong to let the CEO hear the conversations, wouldn't it? 😂)

But as I said, in my experience most bullies know not to pick on those who will fight back, and that is why so many people are almost totally wrecked by the time they do complain (if they ever do) and can't manage the process because it's too hard.

So... another tip to anyone reading... as well as joining a union, do not leave your complaint too long. Be resilient, make it clear you won't be bullied, and if you can't do that make sure you complain early on. Bullies do not give up, they double down if you don't fight back.

So... another tip to anyone reading... as well as joining a union, do not leave your complaint too long. Be resilient, make it clear you won't be bullied, and if you can't do that make sure you complain early on. Bullies do not give up, they double down if you don't fight back.

this is so true (also got some battle scars to show for it!). You need to be strong and decisive and factual - I hit them with a 4 page document detailing their campaign of hate, delivered via their manager. I tried to highlight everything to them first but despite a grovelling apology from them (but only to save their own skin) they were up to their old tricks within weeks. It was the most empowering thing I've ever done, and I'm now fearless and have no qualms in calling out and nipping bad behaviour in the bud.

what I really object to is when a person is kind and non-confrontational, why people mistake that for a weakness, no it's a strength!

OMG that sounds like my story I have piles of emails and dates and times documented in my diary some of which I have even forgotten about until I opened my diary yesterday. It is empowering to read your comment.

I have just read another post from you on another thread. Why didn't you go to your union first? And please, unless you have money to pay lawyers out of your pocket for ever, don't go there. You can't have two representatives. Lawyers or union. Not both. It seems you haven't even been to the union...?

No I haven’t I have appointments with a union next week Monday. At the moment my head is everywhere I am overthinking everything.

Unions generally won't get involved in an ongoing dispute. Also, some unions stipulate that a person must be a member for at least six months before asking for representation.

Thank you. I have been with the same union for 11 years I have never ever needed them I didn’t even know my membership number or their contact details I have had good working conditions until of late.