Getting a good job after graduation

[CreamShoes]

Hi, I'm seeking advice on how to get a good job after graduation on behalf of my son. I'd like to hear experience of others as we have been rather disappointed with progress so far. Graduated last year , 2.1 in Maths from Russell group, A levels Further Maths Maths Economics A, A, B. Good set of gcses ' 5 A, 6 A, 1 B. He wasn't sure what he wanted to do but together we decided Accountancy might be good because of good career prospects and seemingly always in demand. We also thought of teaching but salary not so good and also judging from comments on here, a lot of teachers very dissatisfied. Anyway for the last year he's applied for around 30 Chartered Account training positions, had around 5 or 6 first interviews, 1 in-person final interview ( he didn't get the position but was told he was second choice). Feel quite deflated about the system not working. You go through school, work hard, get decent results get good degree, but then no job! I'd have thought he should be able to get an Accountancy training position. He's an easy,-going person, friendly, outgoing, if anything a bit laid back - could be an issue I suppose. Any advice? Any chartered accountants out there that can give some perspective on the jobs market for training positions?

Has your son a LinkedIn presence?
If not, its worth joining. Do a post basically saying he is seeking a graduate position and hash tag a few areas he would like to work.

Worked for my daughter. She posted that she was looking for procurement, project management and something else I don’t remember.

An events company approached her, asked to meet her and offered her a job.

i was once told if you're not sure what you'd be good at, think of stuff you can do so easily you don't think about it but other people say, 'Wow' at, and then it puzzled you because X is so easy and unremarkable. That's a skill worth monetising. I followed this advice precisely and ended up with a well-paid freelance career.

Aprilx I think that too - not coming across enthusiastic enough. I have mentioned it to him and he says he does make an effort at the interviews to sound enthusiastic but I guess your personality only allows so much of this. Interviews have been mainly telephone with one proper final face to face interview. I wonder if you can get interview coaching.

Good tips *fortified and *neverending

You need to be very determined, committed and unwavering. What is going to make him stand out from the other applicants. Many want to be there. Badly.

A recent article in The Time exploring the Big Four (and KPMG, especially) revealed that PwC had an acceptance rate in 2022 of approximately 2.5%, based on the 304,000 applications it received to its 7,500 roles (including 2,000 entry level ones). 7 Jan 2023.

2.5% ?
See, it even tells you the chances are slim. If he wants it, he's gonna have to make it happen.

Is he only using the ICAEW website to look at vacancies? If so, why?

Asking partly because that lack of initiative is concerning in a potential trainee and I can imagine it would come across in other ways in his applications and interviews.

Show your son this information.

It took my son 9 months post graduation to get a grad scheme type job, starting in September, so a whole year after graduation. He realised that he needed to have work experience in a similar field on his cv to get the first interview. Even one month is enough. Then the interview process in all of them was gruelling, first he did a test online, then interviewed by robots online, then with a couple of people online, then a whole day of tasks in the offices. He must have applied for 50+ jobs. Eventually he began to realise how to answer the questions and what they are looking for. I am sure some graduates find it easy but he had to learn how to do it and it took alot of work! There are online psychometric tests your son can do. I was often surprised at the correct answers. Good luck!

I haven't read all the replies you've had but I'm an accountant working in practice so I thought I might be able to give some ideas.

He could try writing to all the local firms and including his cv and see if there are any vacancies. That's how I got my first position but it was over 10 years ago. Some of the smaller practices don't always advertise positions but will take on someone if they think they are the right person.

He could do with getting some finance experience so it might be worth trying to get a bookeeping or similar position for a bit as it might make him stand out a bit from all the other graduates. Or even some work experience. Also to impress with the smaller practices being aware and able to use some bookeeping packages is a bonus so Xero, sage, quick books.

It's worth looking at which qualification he would like to do and make a start, the starting levels should be fairly straightforward for him and will just show some willing to prospective employers. The main option are ACA (ICAEW) which is mostly practice based accountants, ACCA which is a mix of practice and industry or CIMA which I would say is more industry based.

Are there any particular areas of accountancy he's interested in? Audit, practice, working in industry?

He was going for positions that offered ACA qualification and going for audit to start off with. Does the ACA qualification cover various branches offer modules in various branches of accountancy such that after a few years in audit he could branch to sych like advisory or investigative accounting.

DS is doing an internship after graduating (unpaid but entirely related to what he wants to do for a career. He says that a close friend on track to get a first from a very good uni applied to 50 paid internships. He only got replies from 6 of them, interviewed for 2 and offered 1. That's quite a common hit rate.

I meant paid internships or graduate traineeships.

Is he still registered with the university careers service? Lots offer summer internships with different companies for recent graduates, and it may not be too late to apply. This would help in terms of getting some experience on his CV.

Thanks - I'll ask him about university careers.

ACA will cover things other than audit. I did my qualification in a much smaller practice so I got to see lots of things, whereas we had someone join from a big firm part way through their qualification who had only done audit and there experience was a lot more narrow. If he's failing in the interview process at bigger firms I really would consider the smaller firms.

With that education, statistics and data science are really going to be much more obvious careers. It’s a huge growing field. Many companies are willing to train and he can do some self-learning to give himself an edge. Learning Python and R would be a good start.

Coming across as enthusiastic and being so are two different things. Many people aren't enthusiastic about their jobs. Fair enough.
Faking it is an important part of interview technique, and the careers service can help with training.

Also OP have you checked out career fairs at university at his Alma mater? Looked at what others from his cohort are doing? LinkedIn wpuld be helpful here

Why is he restricting himself to ACA? Even if he especially wants to work in practice rather than industry, there will be training contracts for CA, ACCA, CTA that he's disregarding for no apparent reason.

How much research has he actually done? Are you sure he wants to pursue a graduate role right now? He sounds ambivalent?

I get the impression that OP (and or her son) want a well-trodden path, from her reference to 'the system'.
Good degree, professional exams, ££££! No extra work or thinking required.

Can't blame them, that is what I initially wanted myself.

Statistics/data science/tech adjacent fields pay well but things change so much , you will spend quite a bit of time 'managing' your career. It requires a greater than average drive and the ability to bring order to chaos. Oh and also boldness and self promotion...m

You can be rude about being passionate as an accountant - but lots of people hate it and leave or don't try hard enough to pass exams and that is what they are trying to avoid and your way of saying that's not me I know what I'm getting into is by being enthusiastic and being interested, preparing good questions, and researching the company/industry and therefore providing evidence you want that job in that company in that industry. Showing enthusiasm is knowing which qualification in accountancy you want and why. Knowing something about small company bookkeeping software, knowing something about the company you're applying to, reading their website, LinkedIn knowing their latest thinking on a hot topic in their industry. It's demonstrating you care enough to have done a bit of reading, gone the extra mile, and shown some initiative.

I hate these schemes

I'm currently hiring for an Information security and compliance analyst, I'm being absolutely spammed with CVs by people finishing these boot camps and applying for any and every cyber security job going. They have 12 weeks course knowledge, no previous relevant experience, overblown CVs professing to know everything about info sec yet can't answer a single question in the telephone screening interview.

Another thing is that his degree might get him an interview but it won't mean much after that as everyone being interviewed will have a similar or equivalent degree.

If he's looking at audit jobs it's worth him looking into the new ISA rules and how they will affect things.
Also things like reading the Financial Times so you can talk about issues and being business aware are all important things.

Also some of the big firms have policies that if you fail one exam you lose your job so it's important to be aware of this. It doesn't matter now good you are at your job or how much they like you, one fail and you can be out and they are hard exams.

The bootcamps are just something to get you started. Give you something for your CV and show some commitment I suppose. Would not expect any more than an entry training position with only 12 weeks learning of a subject. He restricted to ACA because after reading about the various qualifications that was the one most suited to private practice and I believe you have to have that to audit other companies, don't you? Some of the others are for working as an accountant within a company. It seemed too much to go for more than one because your narrative needs to be different depending on whether you were going for auditing or management accounting. I'm sure it would mess with your head giving one story to a firm one day and a different story to a company the next day. Not that he's had that many interviews mind.

No, that's not correct. You can have an audit practising certificate with CA and ACCA. I specifically listed them as appropriate for practice roles.

CIMA is for industry.