Getting a good job after graduation

[CreamShoes]

Hi, I'm seeking advice on how to get a good job after graduation on behalf of my son. I'd like to hear experience of others as we have been rather disappointed with progress so far. Graduated last year , 2.1 in Maths from Russell group, A levels Further Maths Maths Economics A, A, B. Good set of gcses ' 5 A, 6 A, 1 B. He wasn't sure what he wanted to do but together we decided Accountancy might be good because of good career prospects and seemingly always in demand. We also thought of teaching but salary not so good and also judging from comments on here, a lot of teachers very dissatisfied. Anyway for the last year he's applied for around 30 Chartered Account training positions, had around 5 or 6 first interviews, 1 in-person final interview ( he didn't get the position but was told he was second choice). Feel quite deflated about the system not working. You go through school, work hard, get decent results get good degree, but then no job! I'd have thought he should be able to get an Accountancy training position. He's an easy,-going person, friendly, outgoing, if anything a bit laid back - could be an issue I suppose. Any advice? Any chartered accountants out there that can give some perspective on the jobs market for training positions?

OfficerPastiche, you confirm what I have been worrying about. He is laid back and not that much direction. But he is very clever, gets on well with people and considerate. It's all personality really. What can you do if you don't have the get up and go personality?

Thanks everyone for your kind and helpful replies. He sailed through school and uni without too much effort. But I guess we have got stuck now. Whilst he had it easy early on, his laid back personality is not enough now. Don't know how he can change it though. I wouldn't want him to get over anxious though. It's me that gets over anxious. He just tells me everything will be fine and there are lots of options. I'm just worried he'll never get a decent job.

If he has a maths background how about a risk based job in Banking? A lot of if involves financial models and maths is a huge advantage.

He did try for one risk based job at a bank but did not get to interview stage. Guess he'll have to just keep trying.

He just tells me everything will be fine and there are lots of options.

And we occasionally get this type slip through the net, possibly bolstered by parental support. They either catch on pretty d*mm quickly or drop out again pronto.

Honestly, at this point your best chance is to let him fail and let him find out for himself what it means to be this laid back. He will either fall on his feet having found the right niche or discover pretty quickly the sun-optimal consequences

One thing I can tell you, it will all work out for him.

I sense that you have some idea that the worries are currently all yours. You could think about taking some time for yourself to learn whatever it takes to let it go. Good luck.

Thanks Finallyhere. I'm always encouraging him and wonder why he is not a bit more focussed and dynamic about finding a caeeer position. However I'm pleased he is still upbeat about the situation

I work in fintech, and most graduates we employ are in risk analytics and data science roles.

I am a qualified accountant of thirty years, I have primarily worked in multinational financial services and so have worked with thousands of accountants over the years, plus I have recruited and trained many many.

I have rarely met anybody in the UK that has studied accountancy or finance, it has never been the done thing. I have lived and worked in Australia for five years too and it is the done thing there, but not in the UK.

A maths degree would be very highly regarded in the accountancy profession in the UK and with good A levels too he should have no problem securing interviews, although if he left it until after he graduated he might have missed some intakes. It is hard to say why he has not converted his interviews into a job offer, but I do wonder if it is because he doesn’t sound particularly enthusiastic or to have put much thought into what he wants to do.

I agree with the poster who said you need to let him fail, leave him to make his own way. It come across like you're making the decisions rather than him about his career. He will never be the best candidate if he's doing something he doesn't really want to do!

So many graduate applicants think their degree etc will be enough to get them any job they want. But I will always pick the candidate who did other things alongside - they were active in a society, worked their way through etc, those are the bits that get graduates jobs these days. Anyone can get a degree now so it doesn't make you special.

He could try the Princes Trust to see if they have any advice/opportunities available, I've known that work for a couple of people.

Don’t put too much pressure on him to get a “good job” which is directly related to his degree. Working in a coffee shop is ok but it’s not going to prepare him for corporate life as well as an admin role or accounts assistant role might. I worked in retail/bars through my degree and my first office job post uni was a huge learning curve in many respects. From time keeping to office etiquette to how/when to email vs call vs letter, to what to wear and how to negotiate office politics.

I would encourage getting Office experience on his CV. Not necessarily in a maths or related job. This might open up entirely new possibilities that he (and you) don’t even know exist. Eg my first office job was in a team who looked after property maintenance. I had an arts degree. I am now an accomplished consultant working at board level and earning a decent salary. I had no idea this profession even existed and just took the first office role I got offered. If I had taken a role in HR or something I might well have followed that path.

In my profession, maths degree would lead to risk management, project and corporate finance teams, tax, project controls. All well paid.

DDs partner got an accountancy trainee position 12 months after graduating with a degree in Geography at a RG. He spent the 12 months in a junior data position at a bank.

He’s just qualified. Did his at one of the big four but there were also apprentice non graduates training.

Maybe get away from the coffee shop and gigging and take the next grown up role for a year then trying again.

I agree that gaining some experience in an office environment, ideally in banking, financial services or perhaps in an accounts or finance team of a company would be hugely beneficial. Starting in administrative roles would give him great insight and lots of these firms will also support professional qualifications.

I don't want graduates who are just in it for any old role. I want someone who can articulate why my firm? Why my specialist area? Ideally some work experience or qualifications. My recent grads include some who previously worked in an accounts role in industry and have taken first parts of accounting qualifications or did correspondence courses in my specialist subject.

I recruit grads too but this is the thing that stands out - they don't seem to know or want to know more about the job, the company or the industry - they seem to come in with a - I've done my bit I've got my degree, I deserve a grad job - but that's not the end of the journey.
For all the skills they've acquired to get their degrees, they don't seem capable/interested in looking for a job by seeing it as a massive project where they need to research and acquire the skills to put them in a position where they understand exactly what skills and attributes someone needs to have to be successful and consider carefully how they can demonstrate those skills. The fact that he is not asking the questions and you are, suggests the problem is he is just not that interested - a grad position will just not land on his lap, it's quality of application over quantity. There's lots of info out there, in many ways it's so much easier now than it was before the internet but he needs to put the work in....he needs to demonstrate his interest. There are loads of free accountancy courses he could take, he might love it - it might put him off, learn Excel and Word, learn to use some of the small business accountancy packages like Zero and Quickbooks, sometimes temping agencies will find a use for these skills - my dd got a temp reception role in a company last summer - built relationships with all departments - the accounts team offered her a job - but she went back to uni, she's still in touch with them and she is learning very quickly that keeping that network alive has paid dividends.

My DD did not know what to apply for when she graduated. She was painfully lacking in confidence and we encouraged her just to get any office job, just to get started. She did and it was rubbish, awful pay, long commute, horrible experience, cold calling etc. but within a few months she applied for a different much better job, with an ok salary, very convenient location. Having the first job on her CV was a big help I think and having that previous office experience is useful.

Is working as a trainee actuary a possibility?

Audit firms definitely recruit from a wide variety of degrees - A'level maths not even needed. You mentioned him applying from the ICAEW website but I presume he has applied directly to the large and medium sized firms too. Outside of the big 4 these include BDO and Crowe, with good reputations. They are still recruiting for some September starts as well as next January. He has been getting past the first stages on some applications so it's important he has a good understanding of what the jobs actually involve so he can convey that in an interview. Also that the exams are hard work. Has he spoken to anyone who has gone through the training / done the work? A basic understanding of a set of accounts would be useful as well as concepts such as assessing risk and the control environment.

Honestly OP you're better off letting him 'fail'. In the sense that if he can't land a good graduate job, just get any job. Maybe office admin,etc. Go on admin and Google 'analyst' roles. There are loads for all sorts of things.

People blossom at different rates. If he's just not that motivated now, you can't force him.
In large firms there are lots of entry level roles, and a significant amount of internal mobility.

Not being able to get a 'graduate job' off the bat isn't a life sentence.

Also maybe encourage him to move out. Once he sees how far his salary goes he might be motivated. Or not. That's fine. It's his life.

Accounting also needs a more than average amount of dedication as you have to work and pass exams. Wouldn't recommend for someone who's so-so about grinding.

It's not the least bit unusual not to know what you want to do after finishing a degree and I think it's totally normal to not have a burning passion for a particular career. I mean, does anyone have a passion to be an accountant 😅
One of my DC had a 2:1 Maths from a Russel group Uni and there only work experience was coffee shop. They unashamedly used the coffee shop job for their CV and interviews - transferable skills and all that. They got a job in one of the smaller companies mentioned below. It's not quite a graduate job, I think it's an apprenticeship of some sort. They are working towards a professional exam but are already on £44k (not London) plus bonus. So not bad at all for someone with no particular passion, no relevant work experience and a bit of a faffing around year post graduation.
Although they didn't get the job they made it to the final partner interview with one of the big four. Maybe having relevant work experience or a more stellar academic record would have helped then. Who knows.

I'd say the OPs son needs to carry on applying but maybe not just at the normal graduate jobs.

OP, can you say where in the country you are?

Graduate schemes may be a good shot. Gives you a broad range of experience and then you decide what you want to do

There are loads of options. Trying to get on a big four graduate programme, a more local firm ICAEW training contract. There is different timetabling for most of these throughout the year. A job just doing some accounts atm. But all these will require quite a lot of effort. I helped A'level ds1 pre interview for EY, BDO, Deloitte and PwC (for many of their opportunities) but the one he really wanted was their most competitive - Flying Start degree. But by God it was hard work. Your ds has to realise this, now. It doesn't just fall in your lap.

Thanks for the replies. Some nice success stories. He knows about the training required with all the exams and so on. He is prepared for that. He tried the big company graduate schemes too. Got through to first interview on some but no further. He'll have to keep on trying or think of something else to do. It's just a bit disappointing really. As I said he seems upbeat still but I guess it must be having some impact.

One of our local accountancy firms takes kids from A levels into their grad scheme occasionally if they impress on work experience as a try before you buy. Could he afford to volunteer for a couple of weeks ‘work experience’?

@NextTimeItsOver

Perhaps passion is the wrong word, but absolutely people have an enthusiasm for accounting, otherwise why would they do it? There has always been a lot of competition for the training schemes, even since I first applied in the early 1990s. This is why, as I posted earlier, I have a suspicion that OP’s son is maybe not coming across as enthusiastic and interested as other applicants and that is why he has not secured an offer.

There is no need for sneery remarks about accountancy on the work forum.

Chartered Accountant here who trained in small practice, worked in medium and then jumped to industry in management accounts and financial control. Have conducted interviewed in all those places....
We always wanted people who a) were passionate about what they wanted to do and b) could articulate why they wanted to work for us.
It isn't good enough to understand the exam commitment, without some evident enthusiasm interviewers won't be convinced he will stay the course.
In addition he needs to clearly evidence teamwork, judgement, decision thought process and have a clear idea of career...as pp said accounting is a very wide field.

@CreamShoes

This might be left field but my two penneth...

Carbon accounting is going to be massive in the years to come, and a legal requirement much the same as an annual report. There are lots of free sustainability courses and some relatively cheap courses that are internationally recognised. He could top up relatively easily to build a pretty formidable foundation.

It's also a bit STEMy or hands on than straight forward accounting.

He'd also be helping to save the planet.

PM me if want more detail.