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Original poster

Think the Manager is wrong

29 replies

Preparedforjobnottolast · 23/03/2023 20:20

Hi,

I finally got my Manager to call me, asking if I should contact Head Office. I’m on sick and there has never been any discussion until now what happens to annual leave. Seems never given it a thought?

I’m looking to return next week as our holiday year ends.

I don’t know whether the manager is having another one of their jokes or genuinely doesn’t know the in’s and outs of employment.

He actually tried to tell me my holiday was soon to be lost oh well hoping that was enough to quieten me. They say I have 14.5 days behind me, what they said next has thrown me - I could either carry the whole lot over (which I’m against due to the difficulties in the past of taking annual leave.) it seems that if I insist on being on holiday next week I lose 10.5 days?

This flies in the face of what ACAS website seems to state.

Do I leave it until the 3rd April to find out if he is really so misinformed or go to head office before we really do reach 1st April to understand if he is just making all of this up.

I have asked in writing following the call if they intend a phased return will use up the ‘new years’ leave to supplement full-time hours.

I’m really confused as the occupational health report went to a named person in ER (Employee relations) at Head Office so I guess I have someone to ask for if it came to it.

OP posts:
FitAt50 · 23/03/2023 20:42

Sadly this is one of the most badly written posts I have ever read. Can you start again and you might get some helpful replies.

JennyDarlingRIP · 23/03/2023 20:44

Are they asking you to use some of your annual leave to make up your phased return hours? I've worked for companies who do this.
Or are they saying you can take it all over but you don't want to.
You're saying you want to use it next week but aren't you off sick?

LemonLion · 23/03/2023 20:48

JennyDarlingRIP · 23/03/2023 20:44

Are they asking you to use some of your annual leave to make up your phased return hours? I've worked for companies who do this.
Or are they saying you can take it all over but you don't want to.
You're saying you want to use it next week but aren't you off sick?

You shouldn’t have to use A/L if you have sick leave left. So says the gov website

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 23/03/2023 21:10

You seem to have started your post halfway through a conversation so we're missing a lot of context here. If you can fill us in we might be able to help more

carriedout · 23/03/2023 21:15

Why do you want to use any of your leave?

I agree that your post is very hard to understand.

Original poster
Preparedforjobnottolast · 23/03/2023 23:23

Well I suppose this isn’t as bad as the forum who accused me of telling occupational health what to write, as if they don’t have a professional medical background mind of their own.

Ok I have a current holiday year ending 31st March 2023 I have amassed 14.5 days which the Manager who represents the Employer is effectively saying I could only roll forward (into the never, never) as a whole amount into new holiday year which let’s face it is pointless giving the many difficulties taking leave over the course of last year I have experienced.

I had decided I would refuse any fit note Monday and would rather use annual leave but it sounds like I have to lose 10.5 days to do so as next week only allows me to use 4 days.

The employers representative isn’t terribly helpful and gets facts wrong quite often with the hope probably I would never challenge what happens with leave at all so I’m at the point of approaching head office.

I’m sorry but having seen on a number of forums people being pushed into using leave on a phased return to make up full-time pay I was thinking is that a possibility but you’ve reassured me that doesn’t happen. I regret not leaving this company sooner as then they would have probably had to pay all leave as opposed to what they are now trying to do.

*last post on matter. Ignore me, I feel I’m asking a lot of questions to the large employer through this Manager that they should know the correct answer to.

OP posts:
JennyDarlingRIP · 23/03/2023 23:39

Why wouldn't you extend your sick leave until the end of the month rather than refuse a sick note, then take your full annual leave when it expires which it sounds like your manager is suggesting.

DontMakeMeShushYou · 23/03/2023 23:51

I could either carry the whole lot over (which I’m against due to the difficulties in the past of taking annual leave.) it seems that if I insist on being on holiday next week I lose 10.5 days?

If you have a sentence with either in it, there needs to be an or.

So you could either carry the whole lot over, or ... what?

What is the other option? I don't think anyone can help until you tell us what options your employer is offering.

unfortunateevents · 24/03/2023 00:04

Like other people, I'm struggling to understand what the situation is here. How long have you been on sick leave for? Unless you have been signed off for quite some time, surely you knew that you were coming to the end of the holiday year and needed to take this leave before end of the month? What was your plan prior to becoming unwell?

Foreversearch · 24/03/2023 00:10

@Preparedforjobnottolast it’s late so forgive the language. You manager is talking bollocks.

You can chose to take 4 days annual leave next week and carry over the untaken leave.

Only take the leave next week if you want to take it.

Phased return - this will in part depend on contractual terms policy etc. If you are eligible for OSP the process I use is the hours you work are paid as “at work” the “sick” hours accrue, once you reach a full day this is treated as a notional sick day and entered on the system and paid as SSP/OSP.

Typically a phased return sees you do 2 weeks of 3 or 4 hours a day, increasing each week/fortnight by an hour up to full time. You need a fit note recommending a phased return.

Talk to your ER contact.

Timeflieswhenyourehavingfun · 24/03/2023 00:13

So you have been advised you can carry all of your accumulated AL into next years allowance starting April 1st but you wish to take next week off using 4 days AL and presumably carry over the balance of 10.5 days.
Your employer has said if you use any of the accumulated leave before year end on March 31st you cannot carry the balance over? Is that what you are saying ?

ComeTheFckOnBridget · 24/03/2023 00:16

@Preparedforjobnottolast have I understood this right? -

You have 14.5 days of annual leave remaining
Your employer has said you can't carry all that over and is only letting you carry over 4 days?

This seems reasonable to me, if a bitter pill to swallow, as I think 5 days is the maximum you can carry over but believe this discretionary - so employer's choice.

You'll still have your contractual holiday amount in the next year, but your employer is telling you that you can't add on an extra 14 days to it, which is fair.

What I'm confused about is why this is being addressed in March as typically it's dealt with in Q4 but you talk about the company's "holiday year" so I'm assuming they calculate April to April.

HeddaGarbled · 24/03/2023 00:23

But why do you want to “refuse any fit note Monday and would rather use annual leave”? If you’re off sick, you’re off sick, not on holiday. Is this something to do with sick pay being lower than holiday pay?

blueshoes · 24/03/2023 00:28

OP, not sure if you are using Google Translate but your post is somewhat gibberish. No sensible advice can be given.

Newjobformoremoney · 24/03/2023 00:30

OP Im struggling a bit but heres my take of what I can understand

if you are on sick next week you can carry over the whole lot
BUT
if you take annual leave next week and not be sick you’re out of your sick period and thus your employer has a “use it or loose it” approach?

Either way, I would speak to someone in HR at the head office.
my advice would be to stay sick if you’re sick. You’ve already got occ health involved, have they given the report? If so, what were their recommendations?

Unicorn2022 · 24/03/2023 00:40

Get your sick note for next week. Roll over the entire 14.5 days they are saying you can. Take your annual leave at your convenience after April. If you do end up leaving the firm they will still have to pay you for the rolled over annual leave plus any accrued leave for the current year. There doesn't have to be an issue and you're lucky they are letting you carry the whole lot across.

Lysianthus · 24/03/2023 01:10

I suspect (and tbh I'm clutching at straws) that OP might be trying to reduce Bradford score and/or sickness days by taking annual leave instead of extending sick leave.
But like most on here, I may well have not understood.

Sweetchillidumplings · 24/03/2023 01:19

@Newjobformoremoney that’s what I got too. It makes sense - you were unable to take your already accrued leave because you were ill, so they’ll allow you to carry it. Once you’re no longer on sick, you’re able to use it, so if this is before the leave year ends they’ll let you use the days you can before the cut off and you’ll lose the rest. I’d also recommend staying on sick until the new year starts and, if you want to come off sick for pay reasons, taking all 14.5 (and more from next year’s entitlement if you need longer) straight away. Obviously your employer may say no to taking a large block of leave though and your options will be to come back and spread the holiday as normal (but at least you’ll keep your accrued leave) or stay on sick at the lower pay rate, then with a phased or immediate return.

MumOf2workOptions · 24/03/2023 09:19

Preparedforjobnottolast · 23/03/2023 23:23

Well I suppose this isn’t as bad as the forum who accused me of telling occupational health what to write, as if they don’t have a professional medical background mind of their own.

Ok I have a current holiday year ending 31st March 2023 I have amassed 14.5 days which the Manager who represents the Employer is effectively saying I could only roll forward (into the never, never) as a whole amount into new holiday year which let’s face it is pointless giving the many difficulties taking leave over the course of last year I have experienced.

I had decided I would refuse any fit note Monday and would rather use annual leave but it sounds like I have to lose 10.5 days to do so as next week only allows me to use 4 days.

The employers representative isn’t terribly helpful and gets facts wrong quite often with the hope probably I would never challenge what happens with leave at all so I’m at the point of approaching head office.

I’m sorry but having seen on a number of forums people being pushed into using leave on a phased return to make up full-time pay I was thinking is that a possibility but you’ve reassured me that doesn’t happen. I regret not leaving this company sooner as then they would have probably had to pay all leave as opposed to what they are now trying to do.

*last post on matter. Ignore me, I feel I’m asking a lot of questions to the large employer through this Manager that they should know the correct answer to.

You can't be off sick and on holiday at the same time.

Your best options are to carry it over but say your want the following days off and advise them of the days (usually when holidays are carried over they want you to use them within the first 3 months of the holiday year)

Or will they pay you

Ask for a copy of the annual leave policy but what they are saying does seem to make perfect sense to be honest.

Just speak to them

vivainsomnia · 24/03/2023 09:24

What alternative are you after? To be paid for it instead? That would be highly unlikely.

I believe that they would have to let you carry over the minimum leave you are entitled to by law. This means if your company allows more, you might not be able to have it all anyway.

Surely carrying it over is the only option. Or take the 4 days next week and carry the rest over.

What is it that you want otherwise?

AlisonDonut · 24/03/2023 09:28

What is wrong with letting them carry the annual leave over (which is the actual thing they should do)?

PinkFrogss · 24/03/2023 09:43

Another one having difficulty understanding your post OP.

How much sickness absence have you had in the last year?

It sounds like if you are still off sick next week they will let you roll over your remaining leave entitlement to next year. If you take annual leave next week they won’t let you roll it over, which is strange.

Seems like you’re better off continuing to be signed off, as if you’re sick then you’re sick, and carrying your leave over to next year. If you leave employment with leave outstanding you should be paid for it.

If you want to take annual leave next week instead of sickness they don’t have to agree to your leave request anyway, so if you’re not well enough to work and don’t get a sick note or your leave approved you’ll be in a difficult situation.

Get signed off again, keep a note of your outstanding leave and any recent correspondence about it, then sort it out when you’re back or in your next review.

fuzzyduck1 · 26/03/2023 04:34

You should be able to carry over all accrue holiday as you were not at work to take it.
they will try and say you’ll loose it but it’s not true.
you may have to threaten them with unions, acas legal action before they agree.

GoodChat · 26/03/2023 06:35

fuzzyduck1 · 26/03/2023 04:34

You should be able to carry over all accrue holiday as you were not at work to take it.
they will try and say you’ll loose it but it’s not true.
you may have to threaten them with unions, acas legal action before they agree.

They've given her the option to carry it over. She just doesn't want to.