Any Civil Service appliers or recruiters?

[Lightninginabox]

Trying desperately to get into Civil Service.

Am 45 - do you think there's ageism in hiring externals?

I have a lot of G6/7 type experience but earlier in my career. I am more than happy to start from scratch again in the departments that are in my area (Belfast) but I wonder am I flunking the interview?

I have done about 12-15 applications, getting up to 6s and 7s in application forms and have had three interviews, two turned down and one I think will be turned down as they shouldn't have posted it as available for Belfast, and one awful press/ministerial briefing in which I got a 4.

Any interview advice?

There shouldn’t be ageism as the civil service goes on blind recruitment. I’m 46 and applying for CS so I certainly hope not. I’m also waiting to hear the outcome of a role that I’ve had 2 interviews for but it’s painfully slow.

are you following success profiles to the nth degree? I’ve read so much on here about applying for civil service and the one that really stuck with me was the one that said “doesn’t matter how much cool experience and examples you have, if you don’t follow the successful profiles and what they are asking for along the different behaviours then you’ll be scored down, and actually someone who probably isn’t as good, but knows how to talk to the talk scores highest and gets the job”

so I think it’s a case of battling on, getting feedback where you can, and keep going

Three main tips would be:

1. Study the success profiles for the grade you are applying for and think about what they are asking for - there are some useful videos on YouTube that may help
2. choose one, maybe two strong examples rather than telling them that you "do X" everyday
3. use the STAR (Situation Task Action Result) method in answering the question - again there is a lot of info about it online but focus on the action so they understand what you did - making sure that you write it in that way, what you did not what you were asked to do or what the team did

Hope that helps and good luck!

You may already have clocked them but there are a set of behaviours that are associated with each of the competencies.
When I had a recent successful interview, I had a notecard with each of my competency examples in STAR format that I planned to use (think I had 2 for each competency so I could choose the one that best fit the specific question they asked). I also had a separate notecard with the behaviours for that competency in my eyeline - so I could make sure that I included these key words and phrases in my answers as well.

You definitely need to research the behaviours that are appropriate for the job and grade and make sure you answer the question. For instance, if its making effective decisions you need to show you've made a decision. Also search up the strengths- whilst these are not meant to be learnt a lot is about the engagement and enthusiasm you show!

I have definitely researched the behaviours to the nth degree, I have a wall in front of me with the requirements for heo/seo/eo according to each behaviour! I have all the STAR info too. Realistically I do think I do better the more applications I do.

Very pleased to hear there’s no age discrimination, i did know this really as friend just started at 47 but just was feeling a bit despondent. Three applications to write this weekend! (They are doing a massive drive into my industry also in my area (Belfast) so really really want to land one before the drive ends!

Is there always a reserve list because if so I haven’t hit that yet.

I've just hired a brilliant candidate in their 50s so no ageism.

Use the star method but make sure to always say 'I did this' not 'we'. Can use Starr if there's time (the extra r is for reflection e.g. if I was to do this again I would do x differently). Prep for follow up questions. They will nearly always ask about obstacles, risks, objections etc.

Good luck

Thank you so much, I am noting obstacles risks objections.

My applications are turning into something akin to my masters notes ie covered in highlights and extra notes!

I got a 7 and a 6 in the last application I did an interview for, but then halfway through the interview they realised I was in NI (job definitely posted as being available in NI), they didn’t want to have someone posted there and it was all really awkward, plus the lead interviewer just really couldn’t be arsed to be there, it was sort of awful and excruciating in the extreme.

If I keep scoring highly in applications but fluffing interviews I might just pony up the money for one of those clinics that analyses your interview techniques.

Is there a specific list of these competencies somewhere? I've just had a (probably unsuccessful) job interview, and I'd like to brush up on things like this I think.

I joined at 58 so I don't think there is ageism. The NHS seemed non ageist too.

Daft question but are you applying for dfc or using civil service jobs?

JobbieBobbie - the application process should clearly state which competencies you are being assessed against at each stage - sometimes there are different ones used for the interview than are covered in the application.
There is a full guide here (be aware also to match the level of the job you’re applying for with the competencies for that level and also try to cover some for the job level above).

www.gov.uk/government/publications/success-profiles

and apologies, in my previous post I got my words muddled up. I meant to talk about using key words and phrases from strengths when giving answers on behavioural competencies - have a look at the last page of the strengths guide to see what I mean

I'm applying for civil service jobs that have been located in Belfast. So CO, DCMS etc. Not the NI civil service - does that make sense? Basically Whitehall jobs that have been moved out around the UK.

Not that I wouldn't apply for NI Civil Service, I have friends who work there and who are having amazing careers. It's just that for my experience, there are a lot more Whitehall-type jobs that I can see that mesh with my work experience and are things I am really excited about.

@CaptainMorgansMistress do you mean we should be using key words and phrases from the strengths while writing out e.g. the behavioural competencies 250 requirements and the interview? Or learning them for the strengths questions of interviews (which as far as I can work out is 'enthusiasm/proficiency/regularity')

I have an a-v of the strengths written out here from adaptable to visionary.

Tbh it feels like I am learning a mad masonic code but I want one of these jobs so much I just have to learn it!

Im a civil servant (42) and also am part of sifting/interviewing and there is no ageism at all. You might fare better if you apply for SEO and then apply for promotions once you are in?

Try to get the key phrases from the behaviours into your 250 statements, dont try to cover too much in one statement. Also, look at the behaviours for the grade above the one you are applying for as they each build on the previous one. Drop me a DM if youwant to chat further.

So if I was being assessed against Managing a quality service, I would look at each of the underlying strengths and try to use some of the key words / phrases from them in the A bit of STAR in both application and interview.

eg:

For the 250 word example you should be getting in the key words from the Success Profiles for the behaviour being assessed (such as managing a quality service). Success Profiles

What you are looking at are for the strengths which is a different aspect to the interview.

The 250 word statements are an example of a time when you had met the description for the particular behaviour for the grade you are applying for on the Success profiles/

Oh gosh I'm not applying for anything above that and some of the things I am applying for are EO. Would just be grateful to get in at all at this point! I'm so glad to hear that there is no ageism, you've no idea how glad!

Been previously interviewing in my old savage industry and had someone send me SUCH an ageist personal response that the Equality Commission of NI offered to fund my legal fees to take it to tribunal! I refused as just too difficult. Recruiter then hired someone fifteen years younger than me with 2 or 3 years experience to my twenty. So feeling a bit battered and bruised.

THIS is SO SO helpful, thank you!

It's like I'm learning French from scratch and you just successfully broke down the subjunctive for me or similar 😂

Thank you so much, I feel like every round of applications / interviews I am learning so much more about the appoach, stuff like this really helps. Thank you also for the offer to DM you I make take you up on that if I need it, so kind of you!

Hi there. I'm late 40s and have recently started NICS (so Belfast-based). I paid for a civil service coach who helped me for my two applications and interviews and I was offered both - Grade 7. I hope this is reassuring. I thought I might be bonkers paying £300 for the coaching but it was money well spent. It was a career-twist for me but loving the work life balance and challenge. Keep going, don't allow the age thing to enter your head and good luck!

@NoTvNoWifi That's great to hear, I hope you're enjoying your work, one of my best friends is just having such an interesting career there it's one of the things that really inspired me!

Would you mind telling me who you had your coaching with? I would definitely do that for an HEO / SEO job or above (not seeing Grade 7s come up in the areas I want and tbh having been freelancing for a couple of years after corporate life would be really happy with EO/HEO/SEO!)

I’d also love to know who you had coaching with as well as I’m trying to get a job in the CS