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Any Civil Service appliers or recruiters?

227 replies

Lightninginabox · 23/02/2023 15:40

Trying desperately to get into Civil Service.

Am 45 - do you think there's ageism in hiring externals?

I have a lot of G6/7 type experience but earlier in my career. I am more than happy to start from scratch again in the departments that are in my area (Belfast) but I wonder am I flunking the interview?

I have done about 12-15 applications, getting up to 6s and 7s in application forms and have had three interviews, two turned down and one I think will be turned down as they shouldn't have posted it as available for Belfast, and one awful press/ministerial briefing in which I got a 4.

Any interview advice?

OP posts:
CharlotteStreetW1 · 08/03/2023 08:56

I was offered a position with the MoD 😉 at 52 so no ageism I think.

(Didn't take it)

Good luck!

GlorifiedChair · 08/03/2023 10:42

I was told in advance I'd be assessed on:
CV Review
Delivering at Pace
Working Together
Networking and Customer focus

I was asked one question for each and the questions were really as you'd expect - e.g. for 'delivering at pace' I was asked to describe a situation when I'd had to work to a very tight deadline.

If you know in advance which behaviour / technical competencies you are being assessed on, you can study the success profiles for clues. Then just think in advance of some specific situations in your previous work that would be good examples of when you've demonstrated those behaviours/technical skills.

You really do have to stick to STAR when answering questions - I find this tricky and I think it comes down to practice really. My interview was only my second in 13 years, so I'm a teensy bit rusty!

Note that I was applying for an AO, so the process may differ for higher grades.

Rollerbird · 08/03/2023 11:04

I've just been unsuccessful at sift for a heo. Statement scored a 3 so my behaviour wasn't marked. I was confident too.

PaniniHead · 08/03/2023 19:43

Stick to the STAR approach for the answer of each question. However, focus on the A and the R. Tell them of any barriers and what you did to adjust and overcome. Talk about the wider picture. Sometimes it’s not all about pleasing the senior management- who is the customer at the end of the line? For HEO- speak for 2 x sides of A4 (5 minutes for each question minimum). The S and the T shouldn’t be longer than half an A4 page combined. Use stats where possible, particularly if you’re speaking about a measured outcome. Do not be afraid to say what went wrong- the interviewer wants to know how you moved forward from it.
For the R- include reflection and the future planning for what you spoke about.

Lightninginabox · 08/03/2023 20:02

PaniniHead · 05/03/2023 20:56

How long are you speaking for? If you’re just rattling off 250 words then that isn’t enough. HEO you should be speaking for about 2 sides of A4 focusing on the A and R part of the STAR method.

I think I was speaking for a good enough while, but I think I'm probably not laser focussed enough! Thanks for your excellent advice, I have written it down and will def follow it.

Just need some more interviews now! Haven't heard from the three I have in but three more to submit.

OP posts:
Lightninginabox · 08/03/2023 20:03

And again, this is SO helpful, thank you!

OP posts:
Lightninginabox · 08/03/2023 20:04

Lightninginabox · 08/03/2023 20:03

And again, this is SO helpful, thank you!

sorry, that was meant to be to @PaniniHead for your even more detailed and helpful reply! thanks so much!

OP posts:
PaniniHead · 08/03/2023 20:16

Rollerbird · 08/03/2023 11:04

I've just been unsuccessful at sift for a heo. Statement scored a 3 so my behaviour wasn't marked. I was confident too.

Did you use behaviours in your personal statement? And did you cover all the essential criteria? By that I mean- not just mention the criteria but explain what you have done to meet it.

Isthisjustnormal · 08/03/2023 20:23

Just to add some encouragement - I joined the CS late 40s as an Heo - progressed to SEO in 6 months and am being strongly encouraged to go for G6 now. No agism that I have noticed, the work can be tough and frustrating but they are a supportive employer. But learning CS interview and application processes is a nightmare (I was turned down for more junior grades before I got my role). All the advice you have been given is good: the one other thing I’d add is think about all the stuff that feels obvious in your examples - for my role it was stuff like ‘I decided to invite x,y to meeting in order to get buy in from senior stakeholders’; I considered x but due to y risk instead I did z’ so basically making every part of your processes surfaced. If you are more experienced there’s loads of stuff you do because you know it works and you don’t think to say. Say it! Good luck!

Isthisjustnormal · 08/03/2023 20:25

And Yy to the extra R -I did a lot of ‘if I did x again I’d consider p,q. And also to saying I. I am a team player so it was not second nature to me at first and I definitely got marked down for it….

tommika · 08/03/2023 20:30

spacechimp79 · 05/03/2023 21:37

Gosh isn't it ridiculous how much time is spent on these applications and then on the recruitment itself. What a massive waste of money!
It's just like the NHS. Couldn't they create a system whereby you interview for a particular grade but even if you don't get that particular job, you have passed the interview and therefore don't have to reinterview if another job comes up at the same grade. It could expire after a year maybe?
Anyway good luck op! I have gone through phases of applying for CS jobs but sadly no luck yet.

Back in the olden days of the last century, I was recruited into the civil service in that manner.

A campaign would be run by a regional personnel branch, you apply and get interviewed for a grade (CA Clerical Assistant back then, which is now E2), then assuming that you passed the process then your name went on a list

When a branch had a vacancy they went to personnel, the list was consulted and you
were offered a job on 6 month probation.

This process had the direct cost of employing a personnel branch in each region and running campaigns as often as needed to maintain a big enough list to increase the chances that someone would still be willing to still be sat waiting for a job 6 months later
(If you have no vacancy’s to recruit then you still had the cost of a branch full of people)

Regional branches became more centralised and then eventually become just the recruiting policy, advice office etc

Nowadays a manager with a vacancy runs their own recruiting with the central department providing the advice, publishing the advert and ultimately co-ordinating the job offer and onboarding
The manager is the default interviewer and requires an independant as 2nd interviewer.

Rather than a branch being paid whether there’s a vacancy or not, I was the independant recently

For my time it took a half day reviewing applications, about an hour of both of us comparing our scores, then two half days of interview.

The line manager had the time to initiate, to look for an independant and to type/upload the scorings from sift & interviews.

With the two of us added together it might have been a week of work across her campaign.

tommika · 08/03/2023 20:38

At a point in time there was a new system introduced for management grades instead of pretty much relying on the annual report having a section about “recommend as ready to promote to the next grade ? Y/N/ in x years”

Instead of randomness based on an opinion (and also holding people back) a standard test was introduced
You had to take the test, then get interviewed by a board to ‘qualify’ then look out for jobs and apply

Later it became an online test to be taken as you apply for a job which meant if you failed the test you didn’t get that job but could apply for another.
This meant that people would apply for jobs they didn’t want, take the test then withdraw with the test banked for a year and then apply for the job they wanted
Frustrating for a recruiter as most applicants kept dropping out just as you were planning interviews

Rollerbird · 08/03/2023 21:20

PaniniHead · 08/03/2023 20:16

Did you use behaviours in your personal statement? And did you cover all the essential criteria? By that I mean- not just mention the criteria but explain what you have done to meet it.

I didn't as much as I should have I think. I understood (wrongly?) that the statement is more generally about you, but saying how you meet the essential criteria, and the behaviours are where you give the detail and the 'how'?

Lightninginabox · 09/03/2023 07:19

Isthisjustnormal · 08/03/2023 20:23

Just to add some encouragement - I joined the CS late 40s as an Heo - progressed to SEO in 6 months and am being strongly encouraged to go for G6 now. No agism that I have noticed, the work can be tough and frustrating but they are a supportive employer. But learning CS interview and application processes is a nightmare (I was turned down for more junior grades before I got my role). All the advice you have been given is good: the one other thing I’d add is think about all the stuff that feels obvious in your examples - for my role it was stuff like ‘I decided to invite x,y to meeting in order to get buy in from senior stakeholders’; I considered x but due to y risk instead I did z’ so basically making every part of your processes surfaced. If you are more experienced there’s loads of stuff you do because you know it works and you don’t think to say. Say it! Good luck!

This is a really encouraging post, thanks so much.

I’ll be back later to talk about PERSONAL STATEMENTS (party emojis etc) as the three applications I have open now ask for 750 word PSs rather than specific behaviours and although I am killing my self over them I still feel like there’s something I am missing in my approach!

If there’s one thing I’ve realised about CS it’s that it doesnt matter how much effort is put into them, if the metrics aren’t adhered to the points will just not be given!

OP posts:
Arsewangry · 09/03/2023 10:37

I've recruited in my civil service job and we don't see any info on your age - just an application reference number and your answers to the questions.

NotMyDayJob · 09/03/2023 13:55

Lightninginabox · 09/03/2023 07:19

This is a really encouraging post, thanks so much.

I’ll be back later to talk about PERSONAL STATEMENTS (party emojis etc) as the three applications I have open now ask for 750 word PSs rather than specific behaviours and although I am killing my self over them I still feel like there’s something I am missing in my approach!

If there’s one thing I’ve realised about CS it’s that it doesnt matter how much effort is put into them, if the metrics aren’t adhered to the points will just not be given!

This was the question I had. I had a question upthread because I've not been asked to write about the behaviours for the roles I've looked at, it's all been a personal statement on, for eg, some of the essential criteria and I'm not sure if I should still be giving STAR examples (and to what depth) and using the athe strengths (if referenced)

Lightninginabox · 11/03/2023 11:21

Now I've just read an incredibly depressing current thread about how unbelievably crap and full of mediocre has-beens the flipping CS is (I think that is unbelievably rude, I know lots of very capable people in the CS, esp here in NI, I'm sure there are wasters everywhere).

... but it begs the question, if it's so high turnover, begging for people, unbelievably mediocre, why is it so f&king hard to get a job there?

Yours sincerely, someone about to write another 750 word Personal Statement so is a bit grumpy.

Also: are the guideline dates on the jobs (application deadline/shortlisting/interviewing/feedback etc) on the job descriptions not accurate at all? Is that what people are saying when they talk about not being contacted for months?

OP posts:
MabelMoo23 · 11/03/2023 20:00

Lightninginabox · 11/03/2023 11:21

Now I've just read an incredibly depressing current thread about how unbelievably crap and full of mediocre has-beens the flipping CS is (I think that is unbelievably rude, I know lots of very capable people in the CS, esp here in NI, I'm sure there are wasters everywhere).

... but it begs the question, if it's so high turnover, begging for people, unbelievably mediocre, why is it so f&king hard to get a job there?

Yours sincerely, someone about to write another 750 word Personal Statement so is a bit grumpy.

Also: are the guideline dates on the jobs (application deadline/shortlisting/interviewing/feedback etc) on the job descriptions not accurate at all? Is that what people are saying when they talk about not being contacted for months?

Dare I ask where this thread is??

I’ve just done another application today for HEO level, Christ it’s really bloody painful and seems to take literally hours!

I’ve actually paid for civil service coaching service to help me and it was really useful - trying to decide if I would use them again if I got another interview , not because I don’t think it’s worth it, but I’d be bloody gutted to pay and then not be successful.

Rafaellarooboo · 11/03/2023 20:31

I joined the CS in my late 40s and definitely not found them ageist. I got my job through a reserve list to give hope to previous posters

ssd · 11/03/2023 21:47

Good info here, am thinking of applying

namchangeanxious · 11/03/2023 22:46

@Rafaellarooboo That is really helpful to hear, thank you.

Lightninginabox · 12/03/2023 08:44

MabelMoo23 · 11/03/2023 20:00

Dare I ask where this thread is??

I’ve just done another application today for HEO level, Christ it’s really bloody painful and seems to take literally hours!

I’ve actually paid for civil service coaching service to help me and it was really useful - trying to decide if I would use them again if I got another interview , not because I don’t think it’s worth it, but I’d be bloody gutted to pay and then not be successful.

It was something about an economist salary, maybe in AIBU.

i feel your pain! I am spending so much time on applications, I have to turn down work to do them!

OP posts:
Greenfairydust · 12/03/2023 09:17

Good to hear there is no ageism...

I will start making applications in a few months at the grand old age of 52!

I wish you all the best with your search/interviews.

GlorifiedChair · 12/03/2023 09:47

MabelMoo23 · 11/03/2023 20:00

Dare I ask where this thread is??

I’ve just done another application today for HEO level, Christ it’s really bloody painful and seems to take literally hours!

I’ve actually paid for civil service coaching service to help me and it was really useful - trying to decide if I would use them again if I got another interview , not because I don’t think it’s worth it, but I’d be bloody gutted to pay and then not be successful.

I think this is the civil service bashing thread here.

MabelMoo23 · 13/03/2023 13:22

GlorifiedChair · 12/03/2023 09:47

Christ that is an absolutely depressing read