Job (posted externally) I planned to apply for has already been promised to an internal applicant. Is there a way to report this without getting my friend into trouble?

[PositivelyFine]

My friend and I are both Band 5s in NHS (will keep clinical area anonymous for obvious reasons). We graduated at the same time. There is a Band 6 job coming up at their place of work that has been posted externally. I asked my friend about it and they told me that their manager has pretty much promised that if my friend applies, they will be given the job. The fact it has been posted externally is merely a formality. My friend told me this to save me the hours of effort I would have spent enquiring, researching and applying for the advertised role.

The thing is, lots of other people on our old uni whatsapp chat are also interested in the role. They are talking on there and helping each other on how best to answer the questions and make themselves stand out. I've of course promised my friend I will say nothing but i'm really annoyed on behalf of the others that they will be spending lots of wasted time and energy applying for a job that has already been awarded to someone else before all applications have been received never mind them going to interview!

Band 6 roles in our clinical area are few and far between with many graduates remaining in band 5 roles for decades. There's not likely to be many opportunities for promotion which is why it has really annoyed me that not everybody will be treated fairly and equally.

I'm sure I already know that there is nothing I can escalate here without asking my friend to corroborate and risking their job (that would never happen!). So now I can only sit back and watch my old uni friends have all this hope when i know it's for nothing.

Yes, the interview experience and feedback will be useful. But not worth the time required for writing a brilliant application form. Also, how relevant will that feedback and experience be when the next band 6 role might not be advertised for another few years? Then the next job might also have been promised to an internal candidate.

Ranting i know, but it's so unfair. Is there nothing that can be done (in all fields of work) to stop this kind of thing? It just feels so corrupt that my friend (who is lovely and talented of course!) will get the job just because their manager likes them and thinks are a right fit for the team before anyone else's applications have even been considered.

I'm of course trying to be happy for my friend. They have acknowledged how messed up the 'system' can be but that they'd be an idiot to refuse to apply for a better paid post on the sake of principle. The good thing out of all this I suppose is that my friend's band 5 job will be available in time for the 2023 graduates. It was a struggle for us finding enough full time jobs when we left uni five years ago. The job situation is even worse now.

Cmon now, no one is this naive. She still needs to get through the interview and it will be done fairly. So I’d apply. It is not a given she will get it, and if she is. It will be as she has done the best.

If I was you I’d apply. Tell your friend you want the experience of interview and application. See how she reacts . If she appears pissed off or Disappointed or tries to dissuade you then she’s been promised fuck all and is trying to get rid of the competition.

I agree with this. Even if what she says is true then the manager won't have the only day in the matter. And she's also an idiot for effectively saying that she'll get the job even if she isn't the best candidate - that isn't exactly a sterling endorsement of oneself.

But it also does happen, and you would never usually know. So I'd suggest applying anyway. The cups will fall as they will. And if you get the job, I'd assume my friend will be very pissed off!

My friend told me this to save me the hours of effort I would have spent enquiring, researching and applying for the advertised role.

Yeah, she's not your friend. She's trying to erase the competition. There's no guarantee she will get it, even if she was told to apply.

Once you've spent hours filling out an NHS application is saves your answers so you only have to adapt it to specific roles in future so I'd apply anyway then even if you don't get it you haven't actually wasted hours.

Apply!

I'm NHS (non clinical) and experienced a similar situation recently. In my line of work it is very common for jobs to be marked for someone before being advertised. One of these jobs came up and it was basically a given that it was for someone who had been working in that team for years. Everyone knew this but I applied anyway. I thought it was at least worth the interview experience.

I got the job, with no direct experience of the role over the candidate who was "guaranteed" it in the first place. No one expected that outcome!

Still apply just in case. But I can’t kind of see their point as well. If they have someone they know how works and trust and want them for the job then they aren’t taking a risk on someone unknown. But unfair still

Definitely apply. So should your other friends. Being "promised" a job means diddlysquat IME. And that's even if your friend is telling the truth.

As someone who regularly interviews nurses I can assure you that the process will be fair and based upon a scoring system during interview that has to be checked afterwards. If your friend already works on the ward and performs well, meets the essential and desirable criteria and scores well during interview then it is likely she will be given the job but she will have to score higher than all other applicants for the decision to be fairly justified. I find it highly unlikely that her line manager has made any promises, I suspect she is just hoping to deter the competition.

It's just not possible for the manager to guarantee that your friend will get the job. There will be a panel of three people, the interview questions will be scored and they will have to justify the candidate they choose. Your friend has an advantage because they understand the team and the role. But, no manager is going to risk their own job falsifying interview records so that someone they know gets the job if there is an objectively better candidate.

Here are my top tips from many NHS interviews:

Make sure you speak to the manager before applying to understand the service priorities and get a sense for what they would value in an applicant

Make sure you reflect all the points from the person specific in your personal statement- short listing for interview is a box ticking exercise.

Take a pen and paper and write down the interview questions as they are asked. It gives you time to think and some clinical questions can have multiple parts so you can get lost answering them. (I got my first b6 job because the more experienced clinician who was interviewing didn't take a pen and paper and missed lots of details in the clinical questions)

Work out what makes you different and what your strengths and interests are and make sure you mention this!

Good luck!

Psychology related field ?! I know many Band 5s frustrated at the lack of progression available while being extremely qualified.

I would echo previous responses and apply and encourage friends too. It should be a fair process with rated answers etc and someone else might pip your friend to the role. Especially if they are assuming to get it and are underrepresented themselves.

I applied for a permanent position in the NHS for a job I'd done for 8 months on a secondment. I was virtually a shoe in. I didn't get it as the external candidate was better in the interview. It comes down to performance on the day. In the trust I worked in, if they wanted a particular person for the role they advertised internally for about a week and made sure that it was limited enough that only a couple of people applied. This has stopped though and it's definitely about who is the better candidate on the day. As it should be.

This is common place at my work. Often the JD is written to tailor to the preferred individual so that they will obviously be scored the best as its basically a bespoke JD for their skillset.

I work in HR and have seen this happen everywhere I've worked.

It doesn’t have to be external, just someone outside the department.

That said, you can still apply. They may not have done this so you have a chance.

In some sectors of the NHS, most roles are kept at band 5 in the NHS. Getting a 6 or a 7 is incredibly difficult.

I’ve just had exactly this happen! The NHS are wankers for it, they rig it for whoever they want to get it, in my case they only advertised it for 24hrs externally just to make it “right” before the Person that was promised the job had a coffee, er I mean informal chat and funnily enough got the job! It’s pathetic and happens daily in the NHS!!!!

If she is counting on the job being hers no matter what, chances are she will slack and not prepare herself very well.

I’ve seen so many instances where an internal candidate were promised a position and didn’t bother showing their best at the interview and then ended up very angry and confused when the panel chose somebody else.

The manager did her a disservice here.

And if I was you OP, I would not open her eyes either and go for it with all I got.

I interview regularly in the NHS. AHP band 7 and regularly lead interviews for band 5 and 6 roles.

There's NO WAY a manager can make that promise. They might want the internal candidate (there's a degree of psychology in knowing someone and seeing them in that role opposed to an unknown outsider) however the process is quite rigorous. You have to evidence the points and how they add up to the right person. HR take the records off us and if someone smelt foul play, the records would be scrutinised.

Either way, for a highly sought after job, there will be lots of competition and the interview panel are likely to see all sorts of options that unfold to them when they meet people. It's very common to not offer it to the person you think you would offer it to. I've done it loads of times and been quite surprised at the outcome.

They may also not want another vacancy to deal with at band 5 which works against your friend when there is a better offer from an external person.

Apply. Throw your efforts into being the best applicant and leave what your friend said at the door. Best of luck.

You would be very silly not to at least apply.

My husband applied for and got a job then found out it had been sort of promised to someone else, the interviewers were sure that this person would get the job. My husband interviewed well and they chose him.

You can't win if you aren't in t he game.

Apply anyway

They have to consider external applications

If you don't apply you might regret it

Rife in the NHS. Almost no point applying for certain roles.

Is the speciality neonates? Band 6's in certain hospitals are notorious for not coming up for years. Dead mans shoes. But then there tends to be a shuffle up and lots come at once. So don't get disheartened. Also as a band 7 who has interviewed applicants many times for band 6 posts, it can't be "promised" to someone. All notes, paperwork etc goes to HR after the process. Sometimes someone's from HR even sits in, it has to be fair. So I'd still apply. You've literally nothing to loose. Good luck

This.
I teach at an international school, and the number of times we’ve advertised a job solely to satisfy visa requirements, only to end up hiring an different external candidate, … well, it’s happened alot!