Job (posted externally) I planned to apply for has already been promised to an internal applicant. Is there a way to report this without getting my friend into trouble?

[PositivelyFine]

My friend and I are both Band 5s in NHS (will keep clinical area anonymous for obvious reasons). We graduated at the same time. There is a Band 6 job coming up at their place of work that has been posted externally. I asked my friend about it and they told me that their manager has pretty much promised that if my friend applies, they will be given the job. The fact it has been posted externally is merely a formality. My friend told me this to save me the hours of effort I would have spent enquiring, researching and applying for the advertised role.

The thing is, lots of other people on our old uni whatsapp chat are also interested in the role. They are talking on there and helping each other on how best to answer the questions and make themselves stand out. I've of course promised my friend I will say nothing but i'm really annoyed on behalf of the others that they will be spending lots of wasted time and energy applying for a job that has already been awarded to someone else before all applications have been received never mind them going to interview!

Band 6 roles in our clinical area are few and far between with many graduates remaining in band 5 roles for decades. There's not likely to be many opportunities for promotion which is why it has really annoyed me that not everybody will be treated fairly and equally.

I'm sure I already know that there is nothing I can escalate here without asking my friend to corroborate and risking their job (that would never happen!). So now I can only sit back and watch my old uni friends have all this hope when i know it's for nothing.

Yes, the interview experience and feedback will be useful. But not worth the time required for writing a brilliant application form. Also, how relevant will that feedback and experience be when the next band 6 role might not be advertised for another few years? Then the next job might also have been promised to an internal candidate.

Ranting i know, but it's so unfair. Is there nothing that can be done (in all fields of work) to stop this kind of thing? It just feels so corrupt that my friend (who is lovely and talented of course!) will get the job just because their manager likes them and thinks are a right fit for the team before anyone else's applications have even been considered.

I'm of course trying to be happy for my friend. They have acknowledged how messed up the 'system' can be but that they'd be an idiot to refuse to apply for a better paid post on the sake of principle. The good thing out of all this I suppose is that my friend's band 5 job will be available in time for the 2023 graduates. It was a struggle for us finding enough full time jobs when we left uni five years ago. The job situation is even worse now.

This happens day in day out across the public sector because it is impossible to promote excellent performers without an external advert. If they want your friend, they should have the right to appoint her and save everyone else the heartache. The flip side of this, though, is being able to get rid of poor performers too to make sure there is turnover that allows posts to become free. That’s a tougher sell.

None of it is a surprise really-the internal candidate knows the department and is more likely to get the post, but not definitely and hers will have to be filled as well. You should still apply if you are interested as you may in fact prove to be the stronger candidate.

I've been more-or-less promised a job before with a manager i had worked with previously. On the day I gave a great interview and presentation but messed up the data analysis exercise (I presented in the wrong format). The job went to another candidate.

you should still apply. you can tell your friend that it's good for you to get practice at the interview process for band 6 jobs whether or not you get the job.

sometimes the internal candidate is genuinely the best person for the job, especially if it's a niche specialism where all the external candidates will have a long learning curve but the internal candidate may have already acted-up/assisted or shadowed the specialist function. other times the interview panel think the internal candidate is a foregone conclusion but they go through the process and an external candidate clearly outshone them.

If your friend is good at her job they will want her to apply. This is NOT the same as promising her the job. Put in a strong application as the highest scorer will be appointed.

I’ve been your friend in a similar situation (not NHS).

I was ‘strongly encouraged’ (wink wink) as an internal candidate to apply for a role by my boss who I had worked with for years and who I got on with well (my boss was the hiring manager).

She gave it to someone else (another internal) who applied.

Apply… you never know!

That other internal ended up lasting about 3 months and then they offered the job to me, but that’s another story

I don’t think they are struggling to find jobs but are stuck at band 5 positions. Band 6 is a specialist or senior nurse and op has said it doesn’t come up often in their clinical area. It is dodgy, managers often want internal candidates . It doesn’t mean someone external won’t get the job if they perform well but it’s an extra hurdle.

Your friend may have told you that to stop you applying, she’s worried about the competition. Please apply, you have a chance of getting it.

My workplace does this. I think it's awful. They have people in the role who they want to give the permanent job but still waste other people's time inviting them in to interview.

The fact that it has functionally been advertised openly does suggest they may not be completely set on one candidate.

I have seen a candidate phoned up, offered a job, told the contract would be in the post, and then it added that they job would have to be advertised on nhs jobs but it would go up at x time and be taken straight down once the application was in. Also criteria designed around the desired individuals cv to minimise the risk of anyone else being shortlistable.

For the love of God apply.
How will you feel if she doesn't get it?

Welcome to the NHS! This very much does happen.
Ive been the lucky internal candidate who was earmarked for the job and got it.
I’ve also been on the sticky end, many times.
Its so frustrating spending hours and hours creating a fantastic application, get invited to interview, interview going really well….. then out comes the ridiculous question that has been slightly reworded to make no sense and nobody on the planet could possibly answer and score even a point. That’s the clue, that’s when you know it’s going to an internal candidate.
Later in the day you get the phone call, really sorry, but on this occasion you weren’t successful, we gave the job to someone with more experience within the department!
All that said, please still apply, you never know your friend maybe really complacent on the day. Also, good experience to see how an interview is conducted when you know it could be moulded for someone else.
Good luck!

This. Seen it multiple times. Apply. Try your best. You stand zero chance if you don't apply.

This happens all the time. ALL the time. The only unusual thing is that the applicant had been verbally guaranteed that she would get the job - normally it is unspoken or hinted or done on a wink and a handshake.

I've fallen foul of it (they were decent enough to acknowledge it and offer me something else) but even so I can see the sense in it if you know the internal candidate will be good.

Very few NHS jobs are not advertised externally, unless they are short term. It would be very unusual for the usual panel and scoring system not to take place. It is not unusual for an external candidate to score higher than an internal candidate who would would have appeared to have been lined up for the promotion.

I have been the lead recruiter numerous times and whilst there have on occasion been internal candidates who could have stepped into the role, on interview they didn’t come across well and the post went to someone else. At times the highest scoring candidate in terms of the applications has pulled out before interview.

You are making massive assumptions that your friend is a) being truthful b) scores well enough in their application to be shortlisted c) outperforms all other candidates at interview. In addition you are assuming that the process will not be fair. Yes, there could be some interviewer bias, but that can work both ways and is not necessarily to the benefit of the internal candidate. Bias is reduced by having a carefully selected panel.

If you are interested in the role and the opportunity for a promotion, why are you putting barriers in the way of yourself and others applying for a role that rarely comes up? How much longer will you have to wait for another opportunity to even experience the application and interview process at the higher level? Once you have done the application it can be adapted for any future opportunities, so will not be a waste of time.

If you don’t apply for the job, you are never going to be considered for the role.

Me and my other colleague were both promised the job.

We were told separately and told not to tell anyone else. We were open about applying but didn’t mention to each other about being promised the job and we both assumed that they would make a position available for both of us.

Neither of us got the job.

It came out that we were basically both back up options if no one better applied which is why we were both encourage to apply, even though they knew we’d probably not get it.

We actually ended up both applying for the same job in a different company and they liked us both so much that they created an extra position.

Go ahead and apply for it.
She has not got the job yet.
You may not get it but you definitely won’t if you don’t try.

My dh applied for a job that had been promised to an internal candidate. He did it for the experience. Well he nailed the interview and the promised candidate tanked it. It happens

It would be very unusual for the usual panel and scoring system not to take place.

I've sat on lots of panels and I see how the scoring can appear to be impartial but basically the chosen candidate is just marked a bit more favourably throughout. This happens even where there is no internal candidate but one person's face fits better (younger, usually).

Having said that, if the preferred candidate absolutely blows it at interview, all bets are off.

I was promised an internal job once. Didn't get it.

Agree with everyone else. It's civil service scoring so there's always a chance of an external candidate getting the role, but I'd assume that the scoring is weighted so the job specific experience your friend has scores highly and she will have been coached to give her an edge.

Always hated applying for jobs already lined up for an internal candidate because its usually a waste of time. Wish it was possible to just promote an good internal candidate without having to open it up wasting everyone's time and taxpayer money.

It’s just life isn’t it? It’s foolish to say it mind you.

It’s possible of course your friend is exaggerating or making it up, or that someone could blow them away on the day, so it still might be worth going for it - tell your friend you wan’t the IV experience if you want to try it.

Any decent recruiting manager will do their best to manage this possibility, including careful selection of who is on the panel along with consideration to the questions/task/presentation to be undertaken.

They might have an internal candidate in mind, or ask them to apply for the post if they are a good fit, but if an external candidate is better suited, they'll offer it.

Sometimes internal applicants don't interview well. It might be because they think the interviewers know their knowledge and experience so in interview they don't work so hard to demonstrate it when answering the questions.

You won't achieve anything by "reporting" this. But, if you apply you may get the job.

Any decent recruiting manager will do their best to manage this possibility, including careful selection of who is on the panel along with consideration to the questions/task/presentation to be undertaken.

At Band 5 we wouldn't be using an external recruiting manager, just our HR.