Civil Service ‘overnight training’

[OP2023]

This is a new role, I come from a totally different public sector role so I’m not used to training anywhere overnight.

Is it usually a hotel? Are you expected to share a room with other colleagues?

Do they pay train or petrol fare to travel up there?

I am not sure what to expect, and I’m feeling a bit apprehensive.

Well, 20+ years ago when I was in the Civil Service, they paid your travel & accommodation costs and there was no room-sharing. I can't imagine it has changed.
Enjoy it!

Current civil servant, can confirm all this is true in every department I've worked in!

There'll probably be a travel booking system you're expected to log into and do it all through.

And a minimum of a double bed!

What if you need to bring a member of family with you, would that be ok?

Of course, that family member would cover their own travel and accommodation costs, or does that look really unprofessional and set a precedent?

Omg imagine having to share a room with a snoring colleague 🤣. Definitely your own room

It would depend on the reason

This would be widely outside of the norm. Why do they need to come?

Not civil service, but I think bringing a family member to a work training event would be very odd unless there were extenuating circumstances.

I have a 9 month old who is still BF at night time, so my partner offered to come up with me so that isn’t disrupted.

I doubt that would be appropriate. Can you not express enough to cover the night away?

That's a conversation with your line manager as they may also be able to share your room.

Personally I would use it as an ideal opportunity to night wean! I went and stayed in a hotel at around that age to night wean so I would have been very happy to have expensed it. But talk to your manager, I suspect they will work something out

I’m a civil servant with a BF 9 month old. If I need to travel for work any time soon she’ll be coming with me. I’ll sort childcare for whatever I’m doing work wise (probably by my mum staying nearby). Seems like a perfectly reasonable post maternity adjustment to me. I can’t imagine my manager would care as long as I covered any extra costs and still contributed to the meetings / course etc as required.

If overnight training/events is part of your contact I would try to find a way to avoid needing to ask for your baby/DP to be able to travel with you.

If it's only one night away I would start expressing and freezing milk so that you can leave enough bottles for the baby with your DP. I was hopeless at expressing but found that an early morning expressing session would get enough for 1/3 or 1/2 a feed.

I would be shocked if they weren’t supportive of this for breast feeding. They will be terrified of falling foul of the Equality Act.

Don’t bring a partner or family member unless you’re registered disabled. It’s highly unprofessional.

on most overnight training you’ll be expected to socialise and network during evenings over longish dinner or even do some work. Same as breakfast although people will roll into breakfast at various times. It’ll be long days and you won’t be in your room much except to collapse into bed and shower

I used to travel abroad all over the world for work for years. On my own, not even for courses. Even then partner only came twice in over 25 years. Both times as I was at a touristy city in Europe, and he came in separately to stay over the weekend with me to do some sightseeing. Rest of time I was way too busy in evenings or weekends to take a guest.

Remind me what century we are in......

If that's not clear, am supporting Op.

Sorry, crossed posted - just sen bf

id talk to your manager or HR. It’s a shame but they’ll probably defer you attending until the next time the course is run after you’ve weaned. I’ve done that automatically as a manager - most courses can wait unless they’re critical skills based vs personal development
if it’s critical, then yep you’ve got a case for company to accept baby and partner need to be there. But I guess it depends a bit on age of child and how often they’re feeding. Do you have an occ health dept that you could talk to about the babies needs?

Mixed views from everyone m.

I am a firm believer in start as you mean to go on. I just don’t want to make the wrong impression, or make them feel like I’m not ready for the job. I want to reach career heights, and I don’t want to set the wrong precedent. But on the other hand, I’m torn about my daughter. I’ve never bottle fed her, and I don’t know if she will take to it and I’d feel so guilty.

I also appreciate the fact, they’re maybe expectations for evening events/networking etc that I don’t want to miss out on because I have a family.

This is a dream job for me, but I also feel responsible for my family. My other children are school age.

This is the first time since I’ve been married (10 years) I would be going away without my husband kids, and I can’t lie the thought of having time to myself is tempting.

Why have you deferred employees? You’re treating them less favourably by deferring training (even if it’s non essential) and it’s possible to have a partner around with minimal impact. My DP would probably love doing his own thing with DS and popping up once or twice to point DS at a boob.

Of course you can bring your breastfed baby for the night OP. The people saying it’s unprofessional haven’t read your update and are assuming you mean bringing a romantic partner to enjoy the hotel, which isn’t what you’re doing.

(Either that, or they know nothing about breastfeeding.)

Reach out to your line manager and say you’re looking forward to coming to the training, but as your baby still has a feed in the middle of the night, your partner will bring the baby and sleep at the hotel so the baby can feed as usual. Say that if there’s any increased charge for the room you are of course happy to pay it. You might want to add that you assume that falls under a workplace reasonable adjustment as per the equality act but if there is any problem to let you know.

Of course you can't bring someone with.

Back in the mists of time in the MoD Civil Service it was common to have residential courses as well as courses that just involved travel & overnight stays

A ‘normal’ course would typically involve travel & accommodation costs covered, but if local you would just go home - usually the night before plus each night except for the last day of the course
Accommodation where applicable would be booked via the appropriate process

A ‘residential’ course would be intended to involve staying away as part of the course & as additional ‘bonding’ with course mates
These would include it being compulsory to stay even when local
Accommodation would be booked by the course administration
(I’m not aware of any of these in the MoD these days)

For any courses and other business travel you should expect expenses, but will depend on the policy of each department
Expect accommodation and rail travel
to be via a booking service.
Road travel would be either via a department fleet / hires / leases or via your own car with a claimable rate
(This would be claimed at the lowest public mileage rate, and may still have to be justified)

Short(ish) version:
Rail tickets - expect the department to pay directly, probably booked by you via an internal web app

Car provision - expect the department go provide an ‘official vehicle’ booking service, and to provide a card for fuel purchases
Your private car - Expect to need justification, then claim mileage (less a home to duty deduction)

Travel time - You are on duty when making official travel, expect to count your time as part of the working day and / or to claim it as flexi time. You may be eligible for a multiplier for out of working hours time. Eg Saturday was time and a half, Sunday double time and weekdays standard

Other expenses - meals etc are claimable as subsistence, but note that receipts will be required and with maximum caps. Eg on an overnight stay I am entitled to £22.50 for an evening meal. If it costs £15 I can claim £15, if it costs £25 I can only claim £22.50

For your partner ….

It depends on circumstances and would need justification
In your case I would highlight it to management, and shouldn’t need additional expense to the department

For the room there should be no additional expense, and for meals etc I would’nt expect the department to pay the expenses (however that could be raised on a case by case basis if justified as an additional personal expense - I’d say that’s pushing it in this example)

Travel is arguable - if you’re provided with a train ticket then you would need to justify any claim for your partners travel expenses

If a car is provided by the department then you would need permission to carry non department passengers

If you use your car then they aren’t part of the claim
(However for taking an official passenger there was a 1p per mile passenger rate)

On occasion I have taken a partner and stayed together. But we were both in the department and were colleagues from different areas on the same project
Initially our relationship was private, so when away we would both have separate rooms provided
On a couple of occasions whehn