Civil Service ‘overnight training’

[OP2023]

This is a new role, I come from a totally different public sector role so I’m not used to training anywhere overnight.

Is it usually a hotel? Are you expected to share a room with other colleagues?

Do they pay train or petrol fare to travel up there?

I am not sure what to expect, and I’m feeling a bit apprehensive.

(Continued due to fat fingers)
On a couple of occasions when travel didn’t need discretion we could book one room, but would contact the hotel to confirm that there was no issue on their side for two to stay in the same room under one named booking - we never had an issue with that

• as part of the project group we did get slightly outted when the hotel had towel shortages in some rooms Among the discussions of whether or not we had enough towels a colleague was handing out their extra spares. “No thanks, I had a shower in x’s room” but they persisted for the morning, to which Y slipped out they’ll just share again in the morning

Talk to your line manager. Is it just so you can feed her at night? If so, and your baby/dp will be off doing their own thing during the actual training, I really can't see why this would be an issue. Although, actually they do have to support you to bf so they might be ok with you popping out to do it as well.

Because companies I worked for identified development courses for people all the way through their careers. Mostly people would have 2-3 courses on their development plan to do in a 2-3 year period at any time in their career. People deferred for all sorts of reasons - clashed with holidays, Childs nativity etc. The courses weren’t going to be linked directly to progression immediately ( eg go on this course = get a promotion). It’s about developing competency and skills through a mixture of learning in classroom and practicing in real life. Deferring attendance for one that’s overnight to accommodate breast feeding for a new mum, whose come back from maternity leave “ early” is a no brainer- if she request it or is saying she can only go if baby and spouse comes too. She mght have decided to continue her maternity for the 3 more months she’s allowed under law, and not be available to attend course at all, and management should have already planned for that in her development plans.

as a company we weren’t going to put pressure on anyone to attend overnight course at a given date until they confirmed their place, most certainly not leave ourselves wide open to forcing bf mums on overnighters.

if there was an urgent need to attend a course for skills based stuff, or because it was an urgent personal development need, we, as a company, would need to find a way to do that training without an over nighter.

there is also the issue of insurance. What if mum trips and falls with baby in hotel? Not as extreme as it sounds as I broke bones twice whilst business travelling- and abroad. Ok, I was away a lot, but being in strange environments does increase risks of slips and trips. Company insurance lability ain’t going to cover that if baby is hurt or spouse. It opens a whole bunch of liability issues for the company, that are completely avoidable.

Just talk to your manager and explain you are still breastfeeding so being away overnight would be tricky, suggest your partner could come as you mentioned here and you would cover any additional costs such as meals for him. I've travelled with both my exh and current dp when they were on business on the basis I pay my own way food and travel wise, but used the nice hotel room and pool!

OP I'm a civil servant and have had my partner and baby stay with me on an overnight work trip for exactly the same reason as you. It was just for the overnight feeds/resettling so during the day DP took baby out and about and I was free to do my work as required. It's the 21st century, they should be accommodating of breastfeeding (especially a child under 1, as their main source of nutrition is still milk of some sort). I see it as an accommodation that will allow you to do your job properly without being distracted worrying about baby at home.

I took my dd now 7 with me and my mum used to come when I used to work away when i was breastfeeding a the company I worked for had a policy to cover this.

My company used to book a twin room for me and my mum as it cost no more money and I used to drive and claim mileage but she paid for her own food etc...

We had a cross Atlantic meeting recently where one person travelling from Trinidad brought her mum with her baby for the week - it meant she felt comfortable travelling with the child at a young age. Mum and baby stayed in the hotel with her, our colleague came to all the evenings and sessions etc but back to baby in the gaps - worked totally fine. I think she paid any extra costs incurred. But it was completely professional and fine. It would only be “unprofessional” if you brought your DH and baby along to things in the evening etc - the point is likely for you to mingle and socialise with your colleagues as well as the training.

OTOH it is amazing to have a night off when you’re ready to do that!

Thanks so much to everyone for their input, and it’s reassuring to hear that requests can me made to accommodate circumstances regarding babies.

I am still in two minds, as this is a brand new job and I am just terrified of coming across as less than able, or not giving the job the respects it deserves. If I was ready to make the application despite being on maternity, I should be ready to take on what the job is asking of me.

However, it would only be BF during the night. In the day time my partner would completely take over, so it wouldn’t really affect my work and what I had to complete in the day.

Not civil service but where I work they're fine with family coming with as long as we pay any additional costs and it doesn't affect your ability to participate in activities. Partner for example wouldn't be welcome at shared evening meal with colleagues.

I think as it's a new job and you'll be meeting new people I'd want to throw myself in to it and leave the baby at home. Can you have a trial run at expressing? Imagine a night to yourself, bliss!

Err, no. Breastfeeding mothers have legal protections including in health and safety legislation. Workplaces need to be supportive. As PP has said, CS HR will be helpful even if line manager isn't especially clued up. And TU rep will also support if needed.

I am really shocked at the number of people saying you should find a way round this. Your baby is only 9m. If the right thing for her and your is to keep breastfeeding overnight your work should support that. And in my experience of the CS, their commitment to equality and family friendly policies is one of the things it has going for it.

Of course if you want to express / night wean / use formula etc that is fine and great and you should. But if you don’t want to, I don’t think your work should force it. Unless your job has a lot of travel this will probably only be an issue a couple of times.

Honestly given that's it's a brand new role and you're out to impress i probably wouldn't . I know your manager would be aware of the bf reasons but other colleagues may see you all checking in and think that a) you're unable to spend a night away on your own or b) you're a cf who is trying to get your dh a free night in a hotel.
I know that's totally not the case but people don't know you yet so I wouldn't want that to the first impression they had of me.

I know that I am probably being unreasonable but I was always super aware of appearing like an absolute professional at work snd purposely never mentioned sick children , lack of childcare etc as I really wanted to be seen as super reliable as a couple of colleagues work ethic totally changed when they returned and I didn't want to be seen like they were.

I'm sure either way won't make much difference though

If you can leave baby all day with its dad, presumably they take a bottle? So I'm dure dad can give a bottle at night too - baby won't fuss for long if only one night.

For a parenting website people are really unsupportive of breastfeeding. She’s under 1. Of course you should ask to bring her only for feeding at night.

I’d ask, just explain she’s not weaned yet and you’d like to discuss if it’s a possibility. But do approach it as a discussion, rather than saying you’d like/need to do it.

Guessing you didn't breastfeed?

Yeah definitely think about your travel. DS has to take a fleet car rather than his own for overnights. He gave his Dad a lift in the fleet car as his Dad ( not a civil servant) was going to the same venue. All hell broke loose. It was absolutely not okay.

It's not the first time I've heard of this, run it past your budget holder who is not necessarily your line manager. Mention all additional expenses will be met by your DP, do also mention how much your looking forward to the training. I would say also that they don't always organise evening socials.
Re travel it may be that your cheapest mode is to drive but make sure you have business use insurance. Lastly the whole thing would be moot if you were staying with family which is also allowed. Read your T&S policy.

Civil servant here. I had two overnights , a including a leadership event, and brought my partner and son for that reason. Spoke to line manager and the EA who was making the booking.

First one I had to pay £10 to cover his meal, second one was nothing as the rate covered it.

The leadership event two senior people said it was good I was being visible as a working mother.

A month later I finally finished breastfeeding and had another trip where they did not join and I had the best sleep of two years!

I didn't want him to stop breastfeeding on account of work but my goodness when ot was over I was glad.

Sorry for all the typos. I may not be breastfeeding but he still climbs all over me!

Not a civil servant, but I have been traveling on business for a few decades now. Bringing a family member along is not that unusual. This is especially true for breastfeeding mothers who might travel with a spouse or a nanny.

It is only unprofessional if you don’t show up to expected events. As long as you attend the training and any optional, but not really optional, social events, you are fine. Your spouse should not tag along at any of those unless a boss specifically invites them.

I wouldn’t have an issue with your DH and baby sharing your room given she is breastfeeding, however, current hotel rates are really stingy in comparison to the past and I don’t always think the companies always negotiate the best deals. I have stayed in a single room in a city where there was a conference on and some colleagues have stayed in hotels I wouldn’t consider. I think the main issue is you may miss out on networking opportunities at dinner, drinks with colleagues in the evening, chats over breakfast or on the train home. The other issue is you may want to prep for presentations which will be hard with DH and DD in the room.

The Civil Service used to have a campus at Sunningdale -the Centre for Management and Policy Studies and there was a crèche on site (as well as a bar…) So I don’t see any issue with your plans.

back when I was a CS, we got paid for travelling time too, unless it was during office hours. There was also an amount you could claim every day for unreceipted expenses