Issues with my Union Rep - WWYD?

[Namechanged75]

I have been employed in my current place of work for over 20 years- always received excellent performance appraisals and had an excellent attendance record. Until now. I am currently facing disciplinary measures related to overpayment following a long term sickness absence (which followed a prolonged period of bullying from a new line manager).

Unfortunately my Trade Union rep has been very poor. I know he does this in a voluntary capacity (for which I am obviously grateful) and his job has been very pressured but it has been very difficult. He doesn’t answer calls or emails, doesn’t provide advice, he didn’t forward me the ToR and other correspondence from the investigation team nor did he pass on the final report until after the deadlines for me to reply.

Fortunately I managed to agree an extension on the final response but it has added to the pressure of an already difficult situation.

He has also responded to the bullying in a pretty dismissive and what I consider to be unprofessional way. It is not an understatement to say that the bullying was for me life changing - it left me suicidal and broken. Anyway it is done now and I need to see if I can rebuild my life.

I have a final disciplinary meeting coming up ( I could potentially loose my job) and have been nervous about a lot of things including him being my rep. I emailed the Trade Union to see if I might be able to be supported by someone else but they said no - that I should stick with him. They have said I could formally complain to the secretary general but I am unsure what to do. I think they are all pretty close and won’t look favourably on a complaint but I am scared that if I stick with him I may regret it. What would you do?

I have no advice but I'm really sorry to read today's outcome.

Thank you. I’ve been reflecting on it all overnight. It really was a bizarre experience- obviously I didn’t agree that my absence was unauthorised, they accepted that I had informed my immediate line manager in the loan organisation (as it says to do in HR policy and procedures) and they had received fit notes. However they concluded I should still have informed my home organisation - despite no one telling me to do so. They also said they didn’t believe my fit notes and medical reports. It was all a bit surreal - think I’m still in shock. Am very grateful to you for your kind responses.

I think ultimately as pp have said they just want me out for whatever reason. I don’t think it’s even personal as I’ve never met any of the people involved before (all new management team).

Anyway going to try and focus on next steps now. Apparently I have to appeal before it could go to any employment tribunal. The Union Rep was quiet during the process but when they announced that I was to be dismissed he advised them not to do that. He said they should just issue me with a final written warning and then dismiss me on attendance management grounds. I was a bit surprised he said this and have been pondering what he meant overnight. He said he would draft an appeal letter (once I have received written confirmation of the dismissal ). I don’t really understand all of this (grounds on which you can appeal/technical points etc) but surely I wouldn’t want to ask to be issued with a Final Written Warning for them to then dismiss me immediately for my sickness absence? I’m not sure if I have misunderstood the process and what options ,if any, may be available to me. Will have a think.

I've just been told that there is a 13 week benefits sanction for being sacked for misconduct. I have never claimed benefits before in my life (worked solidly) but have been on nil pay now for a while and savings running out (also have to pay for therapy as my GP said the NHS waiting list is so long) and thought it might be worth applying. Starting to really panic.

I'm sorry to hear this OP, you've been treated really badly. No advice but I hope you are okay

@Namechanged75 I am so so sorry you have been treated so badly. Maybe union rep knows they aren't doing things by the book. Do you get PIP etc for your ongoing mental health.
Please try not to worry...

Thank you for your kind and supportive messages. I don't get any benefits- have submitted a claim but understand I am likely to be sanctioned (for up to 13 weeks )as I was dismissed. I will look at PIP - am hoping that my mental health will improve once I have got through this difficult patch. Ideally I will get a job (albeit on a much reduced salary) - I think the structure and purpose of a job would help but without a good reference I know even earning half of what I was previously on will be difficult. Oh well have to start somewhere. Thank you again for your time and responses.

OP I feel so sorry for you. I think you have been treated badly by both your organisation and by the union. However, it's difficult to comment in too much detail without reading the case. For example, a lot of our members will say they have complained about being bullied, that the boss knows about it etc and I have to point out that if there is nothing formally on record then it means nothing. So the reason that you were off sick should be taken into account as well as the resulting events that brought you to the misconduct.
For potential gross misconduct cases, our reps REPRESENT the member. It rather sounds like yours just accompanied you. In this hearing I would have prepared a case and set the whole thing out and I would have presented a copy to the Chair and then read it out in the room. They will of course present their case and ask questions of the employee, but I would be the person giving replies and telling them where they were wrong.
The first stage for me (although we would have dealt with the bullying when it first occurred) would be to get the policies of your employer and the one that you were seconded to/or on loan to and also your contract. Within there would be details of what should happen when someone is sick. Even if it does say that you should inform the host HR and your original organisational one - if this didn't happen I would still draw some kind of calculation on responsibility.
If off sick with stress, you cannot be expected to make any major decisions. You put in your fit note. Whoever received that would pass it to HR who absolutely KNOW who your employer is (i.e. who pays your salary) and make sure they know. If you should be the ones to notify them, then the person who has your fit note is not dealing with it correctly.
This sounds like a complicated case. It will depend a lot on small events that no doubt only someone familiar with the case will be aware of.
You should have to pay any overpayment back, that goes without saying. But being dismissed for it means they think it was a deliberate act. There has to be some weight here on management who are supposed to manage. How can you have been off for all that time with no one checking where the fit note was? If it was received then your pay would have been adjusted accordingly. So somewhere their processes have failed.
Just for clarity, when you join a union there are rules that the only solicitors you deal with are the union ones. If you take any other legal advice the union won't represent you on that same case. It does have to get past appeal stage because that is still internal. Our union pays all tribunal fees as do most unions; the proviso is that union solicitors have to believe there is a 50% chance or more of winning it.
I know this is long and drawn out but when you do your appeal, it is YOUR appeal and don't let the rep miss out some stuff you want to be considered.

For information - it is not a requirement that an employee MUST appeal if they have cause to claim loss of trust and confidence to the extent that they believe they could not possibly be treated fairly in the future. Reinstatement where that is based on the employer looking for a startegy to fairly dismiss because they have screwed up the first time would be such an example. It is up to the OP if they wish to respond further, but I can assure posters that this is the case and that the union rep has acted appallingly in the hearing.

This case is simple. The bullying etc is not relevant now to the dismissal, although it should have been properly dealt with at the time. The employer has claimed that handing fit notes to your secondment line manager is gross misconduct because they should have been given to someone else, but never once told the OP that. And has also claimed they don't believe the fit notes, but have not a chance of substantitating that because the OP's doctors are being called liars since they have signed the OP off. The employer has no medical evidence to say that the OP's doctors are liars. Giving your fit note to the wrong person - even if you knew that to be the case - is not gross misconduct. By anyones book.

I would ring Acas too, just to get some impartial guidance. Don't take the employer's word as gospel about claims - they may have lots of experience but they are not impartial. Acas can tell you a bit about the employment tribunal system. If you do make a claim you don't have to go to tribunal, you could settle or decide to leave it you have a fair amount of control over the process.